Native Boot

Oderus · 441

Oderus

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on: May 05, 2020, 03:30:28 AM
Hi. I burned the latest icaros live, and when I load it up, it just hangs after diplaying an aros screen saying "waiting for bootable medium to be inserted" or something similar. what am i doing wrong?



salvo

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Reply #1 on: May 05, 2020, 02:47:05 PM
what system are you using? maybe try the ISO on another computer :-\

TinyAros on Lenovo M70 intel dual core 3.20 Ghz, SSD 120 Gb, 4 Gb Ram DDR3, Nvidia Geforce 8400 GS 512 Mb DDR3


magorium

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Reply #2 on: May 05, 2020, 09:40:58 PM
Hi. I burned the latest icaros live, and when I load it up, it just hangs after diplaying an aros screen saying "waiting for bootable medium to be inserted" or something similar.
Still burning cd/dvd's in this day and age ? :-) (hint: use a pen-drive, which requires to boot the Icaros ISO from a VM, see Icaros Desktop manual)


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what am i doing wrong?
You are doing nothing wrong. AROS is a bit picky when it comes to certain hardware.


If we ignore a 'faulty' burn or other CD/DVD related issues concerning the medium itself, then there is to consider the fact that AROS does not like modern hardware pretty much.


In case you are familiar with your BIOS then try and see if you are able to put your SATA controller (assuming it is a SATA controler) into IDE/legacy mode and then try to boot again.


I can't remember: do you enter grub first before you are presented with the cats eyes ? In case yes then read page 44 of the Icaros desktop manual, which concerns some grub boot options.


What sometimes helps (in case you have a booting OS installed on it) is to 'disable' the internal HD (also done in your BIOS) for a a test-run and see if that provides a better booting experience.


In case you do mess with BIOS and never done so before: Write down (or take pictures with your smartphone of) the original settings so you are able to revert.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 09:47:23 PM by magorium »



salvo

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Reply #3 on: May 06, 2020, 12:24:24 AM
I also exclude that the CD is not mastered well, surely you have to change as said by magorium from the bios the voice for peripheral sata in ide or legacy :)

TinyAros on Lenovo M70 intel dual core 3.20 Ghz, SSD 120 Gb, 4 Gb Ram DDR3, Nvidia Geforce 8400 GS 512 Mb DDR3


Oderus

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Reply #4 on: May 06, 2020, 03:05:10 AM
This PC is definately not new.
Athalon II x3 440
4 Gig RAM
Thing doesn't even have hdmi xD

64bit archetecture

I'm running KUbuntu as it's main OS.

I will give it a try with changing the bios options.
I would have burned it to a pen drive, but I didn't want to boot with a VM, wanted to boot native and install, unless I am not understanding.



magorium

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Reply #5 on: May 06, 2020, 04:10:01 AM

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This PC is definately not new.
Ah, yes i can see the specs now :-) ..


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I'm running KUbuntu as it's main OS.
In that case you can skip the test of turning off your internal drive for test-booting. That workaround concerns windows PC's (or more specifically fat32/ntfs formatted drives)


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would have burned it to a pen drive, but I didn't want to boot with a VM, wanted to boot native and install, unless I am not understanding.
The part that is not understood (as far as it applies, since i'm assuming your new to AROS. And you haven't read/understood the Icaros Desktop manual ;-p ) is that a pendrive can be installed by choosing one of two separate installation methods (you choose the one you prefer):
1) Icaros has a specific pendrive install script, that creates a small environment that allows you to install Icaros to another device (in our case that would be the internal HD)
2) Icaros can be installed (completely) on the pendrive itself. The pendrive would act as your HD.


background information:
AROS can not be booted by all those common .iso boot utilities such as rufus and many others because AROS does its work on its 'native' filesystem, which the install script will automatically setup for you.

That effectively means that there is no difference between running (ic)AROS from a pendrive or from HD, except for the speed difference. Although possible, i would be surprised if pendrive is slower than your CD/DVD drive. Also a pendrive (in my experience) causes less issues (see below).

Additional bonus (as is my experience) is that you can take that pendrive with you (assuming covid is not keeping you captive), run over to your local computer store and annoy the store keeper with running AROS on every machine that it is capable of running it ;-)

In order to be able to install the way as described you would (currently) need to use the VM as an intermediate step.

Furthermore:
option 2 as mentioned above still allows you to install icaros onto a (internal) HD (or any other device for that matter) but has the benefit of
a) you are able to testdrive it from that pendrive. For example to test if all present HW is supported, or perhaps can offer the conclusion that AROS is not for you after all, or coud convinced you (even more) to install it to a dedicated machine.
b1) you don't have to deal with empty cd/dvd's
b2) burning those (at slow 1x speed, because that is mostly an issue during boot-process)
b3) to prevent you from concluding that your cd/DVD drive stops spinning at exactly the wrong time because AROS sometimes (under certain conditions) has issues with keeping the cd/dvd-drive alive, resulting in failure to boot.

Good luck !
Ron.

PS: The manual is but a mere one click in my sig away ;-p


salvo

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Reply #6 on: May 06, 2020, 01:01:50 PM
you have to start from cd / dvd first and then create the pendrive for this does not work :)

TinyAros on Lenovo M70 intel dual core 3.20 Ghz, SSD 120 Gb, 4 Gb Ram DDR3, Nvidia Geforce 8400 GS 512 Mb DDR3


aurabin

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Reply #7 on: May 06, 2020, 06:10:41 PM
I assume that AROS/Icaros Desktop likes Intel Chips more than AMD!



Oderus

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Reply #8 on: May 06, 2020, 08:53:03 PM
Ok so most likely then, it won't work natively on my hardware? If that is the case... I could just set up a minimal linux, autostarting the viurtual machine containing an aros install, and it would be close to the same thing, yeah?

Thanks.



magorium

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Reply #9 on: May 06, 2020, 09:49:29 PM
Ok so most likely then, it won't work natively on my hardware?
It most likely will work natively on your hardware.

The crux is finding out which workarounds (if any) are required for your system, but foremost you will need to be able to boot (ic)aros.

Most likely the issue is:
1) a faulty burn or issues with keeping the CD-rom drive alive, or at least problematic enough that AROS refuses to boot from your CD/DVD.
2) your sata controller isn't 100% supported. Can be fixed by turning it into legacy mode or use the grub bootoptions to turn off dma transfers.

It is simply unable to recognise/find a valid medium to further boot from. In case you are able to see the cat-eyes then you are half way there already :-)

I am unable to tell which (hardware) parts for you will or won't work. There is a hardware compatibility list on the wiki and PCI vendor ID and type will let you check that. You can either use linux or AROS itself to determine (and check) those values.

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If that is the case... I could just set up a minimal linux, autostarting the viurtual machine containing an aros install, and it would be close to the same thing, yeah?
Thanks.
If you''re going that route (which is perfectly ok) then i would suggest:
a) a modern machine running a vm in which you install (ic)aros: the more grunt the better.
b) running aros hosted on your linux machine. It then acts as a a single process in your linux environment (yes, the complete OS).

As for an example: my core2duo machine @ 4ghz with AROS installed in a VM  outperforms my native AROS atom machine (1,6 Ghz)  by miles (and that atom machine is 100% fully supported by AROS).

For VM: your HW needs to support virtualisation otherwise it would be like watching a snail crawl by.


Oderus

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Reply #10 on: May 06, 2020, 10:08:25 PM
Ok so most likely then, it won't work natively on my hardware?
It most likely will work natively on your hardware.

The crux is finding out which workarounds (if any) are required for your system, but foremost you will need to be able to boot (ic)aros.

Most likely the issue is:
1) a faulty burn or issues with keeping the CD-rom drive alive, or at least problematic enough that AROS refuses to boot from your CD/DVD.
2) your sata controller isn't 100% supported. Can be fixed by turning it into legacy mode or use the grub bootoptions to turn off dma transfers.

It is simply unable to recognise/find a valid medium to further boot from. In case you are able to see the cat-eyes then you are half way there already :-)

I am unable to tell which (hardware) parts for you will or won't work. There is a hardware compatibility list on the wiki and PCI vendor ID and type will let you check that. You can either use linux or AROS itself to determine (and check) those values.

Quote
If that is the case... I could just set up a minimal linux, autostarting the viurtual machine containing an aros install, and it would be close to the same thing, yeah?
Thanks.
If you''re going that route (which is perfectly ok) then i would suggest:
a) a modern machine running a vm in which you install (ic)aros: the more grunt the better.
b) running aros hosted on your linux machine. It then acts as a a single process in your linux environment (yes, the complete OS).

As for an example: my core2duo machine @ 4ghz with AROS installed in a VM  outperforms my native AROS atom machine (1,6 Ghz)  by miles (and that atom machine is 100% fully supported by AROS).

For VM: your HW needs to support virtualisation otherwise it would be like watching a snail crawl by.

Hmmmm, and it is not possible to boot and install from usb drive?



magorium

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Reply #11 on: May 06, 2020, 10:23:58 PM
Hmmmm, and it is not possible to boot and install from usb drive?
I never tried that one myself but i don't see why not.

Booting from a pendrive (sometimes also named usb-drive/flash-drive and whatever else by some) is more or less the same process. That is unless "usb drive" means cd/dvd rom drive in your (current) vocabulary ;-)

I would avoid SSD though, that had something to do with perfectly aligning the start of a partition (old forums did report about something like that if i remember correctly).

There _can_ be issues with USB though.

AROS' usb stack isn't up for usb 3.x (i don't know if experiments with that ever went into icaros) and there _can_ be issues with USB 2.x (also there: turn on legacy in bios for verification)... And..  whatever you do, forget about USB hubs and rerouted USB (through monitor/keyboard). If AROS doesn't boot from USB for you then first try another USB header. (there are usually multiple around on your mother board).

It really is a pain that the old forums are gone: all your questions have been ask over and over (and answered), including the nitty gritty for some specific hardware configurations. sight.


edit:
PS: i have a sd-card reader such as this (difference is that mine is a USB 2.0 variant) and Icaros installed and boots perfectly from it.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 10:34:15 PM by magorium »



Oderus

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Reply #12 on: May 06, 2020, 10:33:40 PM
Hmmmm, and it is not possible to boot and install from usb drive?
I never tried that one myself but i don't see why not.

Booting from a pendrive (sometimes also named usb-drive/flash-drive and whatever else by some) is more or less the same process. That is unless "usb drive" means cd/dvd rom drive in your (current) vocabulary ;-)

I would avoid SSD though, that had something to do with perfectly aligning the start of a partition (old forums did report about something like that if i remember correctly).

There _can_ be issues with USB though.

AROS' usb stack isn't up for usb 3.x (i don't know if experiments with that ever went into icaros) and there _can_ be issues with USB 2.x (also there: turn on legacy in bios for verification)... And..  whatever you do, forget about USB hubs and rerouted USB (through monitor/keyboard). If AROS doesn't boot from USB for you then first try another USB header. (there are usually multiple around on your mother board).

It really is a pain that the old forums are gone: all your questions have been ask over and over (and answered), including the nitty gritty for some specific hardware configurations. sight.

I think this PC has only 1 2.0 USB port. No USB hubs that are not onboard. It is a fairly basic PC. I had read that RUFUS is not recommended to create a usb drive of icaros, is there another program I should use? I think as far as DVD boot goes, it gave up trying to read it, shortly after it gave me the eyes, the disc speed reduced and then spun down to a stop



magorium

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Reply #13 on: May 06, 2020, 10:45:48 PM
I think this PC has only 1 2.0 USB port. No USB hubs that are not onboard. It is a fairly basic PC.
sounds perfect :-)


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I had read that RUFUS is not recommended to create a usb drive of icaros, is there another program I should use?
Have you been paying attention to what i wrote ?  :P


Boot the ISO from a VM (there is no need to install it into the VM itself, so use any machine you have available and that is most suitable for running VM's) and attach your USB pendrive/cardreader or whatever else you wish to install to) to that VM and directly install icaros to that USB device. You can either install it fully, or use the USB pendrive install script (which makes a icaros install medium for you). Both methods can be invoked from the workbench if not mistaken (Icaros desktop manual has a chapter on how to install).


There are other possibilities (such as swapping HD's around different machines and put them into the machine running the VM, and access them directly, but they can be very devastating in case you are for instance selecting the wrong device/partition. I would recommend not to do such a thing, especially if you do not understand how VM's work.


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I think as far as DVD boot goes, it gave up trying to read it, shortly after it gave me the eyes, the disc speed reduced and then spun down to a stop
Yups, that (unfortunately) sounds all too familiar.


edit: PS
in case you are going with a pendrive/cardreader and a full installation: make sure you install onto a medium that is big enough. Icaros requires twice the amount of storage because it first copies the archived files to the medium and then extracts them. So the DVD version will need at least 8GB (and i even believe that is not enough these days anymore, so you would have to resort to minimal 16 GB).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 10:50:38 PM by magorium »



Oderus

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Reply #14 on: May 06, 2020, 10:53:11 PM
I think this PC has only 1 2.0 USB port. No USB hubs that are not onboard. It is a fairly basic PC.
sounds perfect :-)


Quote
I had read that RUFUS is not recommended to create a usb drive of icaros, is there another program I should use?
Have you been paying attention to what i wrote ?  :P


Boot the ISO from a VM (there is no need to install it into the VM itself, so use any machine you have available and that is most suitable for running VM's) and attach your USB pendrive/cardreader or whatever else you wish to install to) to that VM and directly install icaros to that USB device. You can either install it fully, or use the USB pendrive install script (which makes a icaros install medium for you). Both methods can be invoked from the workbench if not mistaken (Icaros desktop manual has a chapter on how to install).


There are other possibilities (such as swapping HD's around different machines and put them into the machine running the VM, and access them directly, but they can be very devastating in case you are for instance selecting the wrong device/partition. I would recommend not to do such a thing, especially if you do not understand how VM's work.

that sounds tempting. i have a few 50gb partitions that are ext4 and empty. as long as i dont put sda1 or sda5 on the vm i'd be good. i will try it the other way first though! if that fails i may try installing to a partition through a vm.