Author Topic: The situation  (Read 1319 times)

phoenixkonsole

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Re: The situation
« Reply #90 on: October 19, 2019, 12:39:34 PM »
Lol .. yes this was what i tried to tell you

Edit:
Just to add sie ring to the painting Ąthe situationď

The problems of funding or market building can be taken out of the consideration.

We just need to bring the horsepower on the street and we need to define the destination where we (devs) want to go ..

I am more the consumer / crypto guy lately.

Donít expect broadway being updated.
Paolo should be supported being the one maintaining the one and only distro (next to those having fun to create an own one).

I am Amiga fan .. you all too i believe..
the question is what are we aiming for ?
Convincing others about AROS as operating system is mega impossible ..
Bam .

Using it and delivering it as a solution for Ąusecasesď is absolutely possible.

I proved it. But itís not about the spirit of the os as users donít care .. they care about UI and UX if at all ..

So the Situation is more a question about who does what and where is everyone heading to ? Destination / goal ?

I need to talk to power2people about crypto acceptance .. the idea of passive income Bla bla : ) it works
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 12:56:06 PM by phoenixkonsole »

ntromans

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Re: The situation
« Reply #91 on: October 19, 2019, 02:08:11 PM »
@deadwood

yes that is how I see it too

Aros became pure "research" but not really "replacement"

Users do not care about advanced USB support as long the whole system is not stable and there are bugs that make normal use impossible. The system must run stable and (as far as possible) bug free, it must be easy to install and hardware must be supported. As long this is not the case most users will drop it immediately

My idea (being no OS developer of course) concentrate on hosted versions regarding X86/X64 (Windows, Mac, Linux) with full support of the underlying OS (sound, USB, 3D, Network) and on V4 (68k) and RPi (ARM) native (because hardware is relative static)

Absolutely - as you say, relatively static hardware gives the best chance of success. What about this as a scenario?

- For those of us that like to run native, support one modern, barebones, relaively cheep and easily available x64 motherboard with plenty of PCIx express slots to add supported sound, network and graphics cards.

- For people who just want to use their current x64 machine, the options would be VM or hosted under Linux.

- For portable AROS, RPi 4 with AROS ARM native and one of the many kits for making it into a tablet or laptop.

- If possible (I appreciate USB is a problem here), AROS native on Pi 0 for embedded applications, hobby electronics and tinkering.*

- For the retro/gamer crowd, AROS 68k on Vampire.

Of course, the 'holy grail' for this is that all run the same API, so (within hardware limitations) one source-code file can be compiled for any of these targets Of course, as to how technically possible this is I am totally unqualified to say; it's just my musings.

Cheers,
Nigel.

*I still think there's a big opportunity for AROS to shine in this area. I'm currently setting up our annual Halloween haunted house full of animatronics triggered by various sensors, all controlled by AROS via Hollywood.

miker1264

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Re: The situation
« Reply #92 on: October 19, 2019, 02:31:59 PM »
@deadwood

yes that is how I see it too

Aros became pure "research" but not really "replacement"

Users do not care about advanced USB support as long the whole system is not stable and there are bugs that make normal use impossible. The system must run stable and (as far as possible) bug free, it must be easy to install and hardware must be supported. As long this is not the case most users will drop it immediately

My idea (being no OS developer of course) concentrate on hosted versions regarding X86/X64 (Windows, Mac, Linux) with full support of the underlying OS (sound, USB, 3D, Network) and on V4 (68k) and RPi (ARM) native (because hardware is relative static)

I have to say I also agree with the fact that AROS has one foot in the past, one foot in the present with an eye towards the future! Yes, it has its roots in the Amiga operating system. But it is also trying to be a more modern operating system by taking on modern features. And it has to be able to continue to grow.

But none of that really matters if each version isn't backwards compatible and stable enough to use. If you implement something new and break something else, then fix it immediately! It doesn't make sense to work on a version that is knowingly broken in certain areas. It may have been "research" at the beginning but now it's "implementation".

That's what's happening now, trying to fix what's broken to provide a stable foundation to build upon. This even more important when making the jump from 32bit to 64bit because much of what worked on 32bit doesn't work on 64bit. So it has to be fixed. But if it never really worked before, it may need to be completely reworked. That's a lot of extra work.

I agree also that there are certain areas where AROS can grow and become much better. Hosted is a very promising way to go, especially Hosted on Linux. Perhaps over time AROS will become more integrated with Linux to the point where Linux supports the hardware and AROS becomes the desktop. So when you start up your system, kinda like Mac OS X, you don't really see Linux. You just see AROS loading. Then it opens to Wanderer. But Linux is still there and you can still run Linux Apps and use Linux tools. Hosted is the way forward with PC hardware. But there should be support for AROS Native.

As far as hardware, AROS 68k is growing and improving because there is an increased demand for it to support modern accelerators. ARM support is also very promising and has the potential to reach a much larger group of users when it all works.

AROS had modest beginnings, but now it needs a way forward and skilled programmers who are devoted to its success.

miker1264

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Re: The situation
« Reply #93 on: October 19, 2019, 02:47:51 PM »
In the area of tablets and smartphones that may someday use a flavor or AROS hosted on a Linux base here's a concept:

Long shadow, flat icons for AROS tablets.

It can be an IFF Icon with as few as 8 colors. Or it could be a full color 32bit PNG Icon.

The cocept of AROS running Hosted on Linux is slightly different than AROS running "integrated" with Linux. Where Linux goes, AROS goes when integrated. When Linux runs on ARM so does AROS. Here is an example:

https://www.unix.com/android/145159-android-linux-java.html
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 06:18:28 PM by miker1264 »

paolone

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Re: The situation
« Reply #94 on: October 19, 2019, 07:00:59 PM »
Well .. aros hosted / Wanderer is the ui of around 6000 sold Odroids XU4 in 2018/19
Problem: people donít care if it is aros or any other os as long the devices do what they shall ..
Just saying that aros has by far the largest distribution base .. but completely wrong audience : )
LOL! So it happens that AROS currentl has twice the userbase of AmigaOS 4. You shall tell that to people on aw.net. :D

x-vision

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Re: The situation
« Reply #95 on: October 20, 2019, 02:11:03 PM »
Well .. aros hosted / Wanderer is the ui of around 6000 sold Odroids XU4 in 2018/19
Problem: people donít care if it is aros or any other os as long the devices do what they shall ..
Just saying that aros has by far the largest distribution base .. but completely wrong audience : )
LOL! So it happens that AROS currentl has twice the userbase of AmigaOS 4. You shall tell that to people on aw.net. :D

Would you support it, and not accuse him of being "very harsh"? ;) that would be an improvement

salvo

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Re: The situation
« Reply #96 on: October 20, 2019, 02:25:58 PM »
but power2people is active? :-\
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phoenixkonsole

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Re: The situation
« Reply #97 on: October 20, 2019, 04:28:00 PM »
I have been last time in touch around June with ASiegel because he did the OS Logos for the transcendence Project (scroll down) the idea is also to rename Amicloud to transcendence cloud and make it open. And last time i saw him on AW.net posting in the thread about 64Bit Amigas.

I will email him as my "wish" would be to implement TELOS in P2P (that is the coin we started in june) can be easily accepted by using this: https://cryptocurrencycheckout.com

As we create a sort of basic income /passively we can enable amigans that way to donate without even touching their own pockets.
I have collected a bag of 3 Mio TELOS to share with Amigans. I am just waiting 2-3 month to announce it.

EDIT:
I see they listed us https://cryptocurrencycheckout.com/coin/transcendence

paolone

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Re: The situation
« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2019, 04:44:08 PM »
Would you support it, and not accuse him of being "very harsh"? ;) that would be an improvement
what?

ASiegel

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Re: The situation
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2019, 11:20:29 AM »
but power2people is active? :-\
It is.

Paypal blocked the account used for donations for an extended period of time but this has been addressed.

salvo

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Re: The situation
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2019, 03:05:03 PM »
thank's
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wawa

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Re: The situation
« Reply #101 on: October 24, 2019, 07:29:32 PM »
Concerning Wanderer I don't like the window title reflecting the whole path of the window. It is also a duplicate of the path showed on the underneath text box.

i agree, but it isnt a bug and you can disable the toolbar. it doesnt pay to fix up wanderer too much if kalamatee delivers his update soon.

magorium

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Re: The situation
« Reply #102 on: October 30, 2019, 09:11:12 AM »
The history is a bit different.
Thank you for the correction deadwood.

I completely forgot to incorporate the relevant part about Staf's work. It simply slipped my mind, sorry for that.

Quote
I think at that time the developer community was fairly uniform in supporting that move (including me to some degree) or was not voicing concern.
Just to make sure that i wrote not different: It was after that (when things settled down a bit after celebrating/enjoying the work done) that things did go a bit haywire.

If not the case then please feel free to correct. But whatever the case, we (unfortunately) are where we are today.

btw: good to see you (back) again, if even for correcting my dumb ramblings.