AROS Exec

General => Help => Topic started by: Transdude1996 on January 03, 2019, 04:08:54 AM

Title: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 03, 2019, 04:08:54 AM
I'm trying to install Icaros as the native OS for a Yoga 2 13, and upon loading the desktop, I receive this error message:

Software Failure!
Program failed
Taske : 0x01293CF0 - Boot Mount
Error : 0x80038007 - dos.library could not open library unknown
PC : 0x015AD613
Module Kickstart ELF Segment 1 .text (0x015AB700) Offset 0x00001F13
Wait for disk activity to finish


What does this message mean because I've encountered it with both Icaros and AspireOS.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: sabbate on January 03, 2019, 05:41:19 AM
try to burn the ISO with verification

hi
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 03, 2019, 06:27:51 AM
try to burn the ISO with verification
Imgburn verified that the disk is good, and I'm still getting the same result. Should I try installing an earlier version of Icaros (Before V2.2 because I tried v2.2.1 earlier and it had the same result), or install another OS before I install AROS (Such as FreeDOS)?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 03, 2019, 07:48:39 AM
I'm trying to install Icaros as the native OS for a Yoga 2 13, and upon loading the desktop, I receive this error message:
Upon loading what and when exactly ?


When Loading the OS from cd/dvd or was it already installed succesfully and then you recieved this error ?

afaik the yoga does not have a (internal) cd/dvd player so i'm guessing you have a external cd/dvd player connected and you receive the error when booting the cd/dvd before AROS is actually  installed on the (internal) HD. If that is the case: are you using a docking station or other kind of hub to connect your installation media (be it cd/dvd or pendrive) ?



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What does this message mean because I've encountered it with both Icaros and AspireOS.
The message means that dos library is unable to locate a specifc library... which is a bit of a problem when Aros is handling mount process. I'm a bit puzzled by the "unknown library" part though.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 03, 2019, 08:18:54 AM
i'm guessing you have a external cd/dvd player connected and you receive the error when booting the cd/dvd before AROS is actually  installed on the (internal) HD. If that is the case: are you using a docking station or other kind of hub to connect your installation media (be it cd/dvd or pendrive) ?
Yes, that's it. I'm booting AROS directly from a burned DVD disc and (After exiting Grub, and the "loading screen"?) I encounter the error just when the desktop is suppose to load. Also, the DVD drive is plugged directly into one of the two USB ports on the laptop (Ones a 3.0 port, the other is a regular port, and there isn't a change in the result despite which one I use, but I still default to using the regular port).
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 03, 2019, 09:32:05 AM
Quote
Yes, that's it. I'm booting AROS directly from a burned DVD disc and (After exiting Grub, and the "loading screen"?) I encounter the error just when the desktop is suppose to load.
hmz. Did you perhaps notice a physical spin-down of the dvd drive just after grub is booting (and no spin-up again) ?

fwiw: there are issues with a cd/dvd disc that is burned too fast. It is better to try writing at 1x speed then it is to write at higher speeds. Since i've experienced many isues when using rewriteables i've  switched to booting from pendrive (long time ago, and haven't used dvd drive anymore for over a decade now). also fwiw pendrive booting is only possible by installing aros on sfs formatted pendrive, so the only sane way to do that when not having another machine capable of booting aros  is to use a virtual machine (vbox/vmware or similar).

I do not have hands on experience with yoga but are you perhaps able to tweak the bios settings somewhat ? e.g. allow for legacy USB ? (as aros supports 2.x and pretty much dislikes any kind of hub and sometimes get interference form other devices when connected on the same USB header). Also worth experimenting with disabling your internal boot device in case your bios allows it (if only to see if AROS gets confused by boot order or something similar).

Note that using a nightly allows you to show extended information during boot process by altering the grub settings (sysdebug=all). Perhaps that is able to provide some more informative feedback.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: dizzy on January 03, 2019, 09:52:04 AM
I've encountered a similar error message. It showed up when there was no partition.library build (On hosted), fat filesystem needs it at least. Was a bit puzzled at the time for the error message as it is not informative in anyway.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 03, 2019, 07:41:36 PM
Quote
Yes, that's it. I'm booting AROS directly from a burned DVD disc and (After exiting Grub, and the "loading screen"?) I encounter the error just when the desktop is suppose to load.
hmz. Did you perhaps notice a physical spin-down of the dvd drive just after grub is booting (and no spin-up again) ?
No, the drive was still running and only spinned down a second or two after the error message pops up.

fwiw: there are issues with a cd/dvd disc that is burned too fast. It is better to try writing at 1x speed then it is to write at higher speeds. Since i've experienced many isues when using rewriteables i've  switched to booting from pendrive (long time ago, and haven't used dvd drive anymore for over a decade now). also fwiw pendrive booting is only possible by installing aros on sfs formatted pendrive, so the only sane way to do that when not having another machine capable of booting aros  is to use a virtual machine (vbox/vmware or similar).
It didn't work. I'll try going a bootable USB drive next (Wasted enough discs). I just don't care for how..."unpreservable" USBs are in their function.

I do not have hands on experience with yoga but are you perhaps able to tweak the bios settings somewhat ? e.g. allow for legacy USB ? (as aros supports 2.x and pretty much dislikes any kind of hub and sometimes get interference form other devices when connected on the same USB header). Also worth experimenting with disabling your internal boot device in case your bios allows it (if only to see if AROS gets confused by boot order or something similar).
Here are all of the bios options and their current setting:
USB Legacy : Enabled
Wireless LAN : Enabled
Power Beep: Disabled
Intel Virtual Technology : Enabled
BIOS Back Flash : Disabled
Hotkey Mode : Enabled
Intel(R) AT Support System : Enabled

Administrator Password : Not Set
User Password : Not Set
HDD Password : Not Set

Boot Mode : Legacy Support
Boot Priority : Legacy First
USB Boot : Enabled
PXE Boot to LAN : Disabled
(Boot mode currently has the USB taking priority over the SATA hard drive)

OS Optimized Defaults : Other OS


Note that using a nightly allows you to show extended information during boot process by altering the grub settings (sysdebug=all). Perhaps that is able to provide some more informative feedback.
Which nightlies, the ABIv1 (http://aros.sourceforge.net/nightly1.php) or ABIv0 (http://aros.sourceforge.net/nightly.php) builds? Tried using the 64-bit build from the former source, and the error I encounter upon loading the desktop is:
Software Failure!
Program failed
Task : 0x0000000100308380 - hid.class<002F89F4>
Error : 0x00000003 - Illegal address access
PC : 0x0000000097DB901A
Module hid.class Segment 1 .text (0x0000000097DB3980) Offset 0x000000000000569A
Function nParseReport (0x0000000097DB7EA0) Offset 0x000000000000117A
Wait for disk activity to finish.


I've encountered a similar error message. It showed up when there was no partition.library build (On hosted), fat filesystem needs it at least. Was a bit puzzled at the time for the error message as it is not informative in anyway.
So, format the hard drive to FAT before I insert the AROS disk? OH! I really should have mentioned this in the OP, I'm installing this on a fresh 500 GB hard drive that I just received in the mail. Should I try formatting the drive to FAT first and then insert the AROS disc?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 03, 2019, 09:10:24 PM
Thank you for the extensive feedback  Transdude1996

Let me start with saying that i've never encountered the exact same error message that you currently seem to be confronted with. From experience my suspicion is that either the boot medium is damaged or AROS tries to locate the required libraries on a device that isn't accesible at that time during the boot process (hence the suggestion to disable internal boot device). fwiw we had a time period where AROS tried to locate the system files from the internal fat/ntfs disk when the volume label met "SYS" and when the fat/ntfs driver was enabled during boot (this should not be able to happen anymore).

Quote
It didn't work. I'll try going a bootable USB drive next (Wasted enough discs).
Yes, wasting discs is another good reason to switch to pendrive. Another one is that it is much easier to travel with that pendrive and insert it into any other machine to see if AROS is able to boot from it.

Quote
I just don't care for how..."unpreservable" USBs are in their function.
They aren't. Just do not use the pendrive to work from but rather use it as installation media. I do have pendrives that i use as 'work system' but that is just because i often find myself wanting to quickly test software on particular hardware.

Quote
Which nightlies, the ABIv1 or ABIv0 builds? Tried using the 64-bit build from the former source,
Sorry, my bad.

Icaros desktop is based on ABIv0 while the more advanced is ABIv1. For better information feedback it might be advisable to test with abiV1 but if you wish to stay on par with Icaros/AspireOS then try to replicate with v0 nightly. The v0 nightly boot should be 100% similar (minus perhaps added/removed drivers in AspireOS/Icaros).

I would also suggest to stick to 32-bit for the moment (AspireOS and Icaros are as well).

Quote
and the error I encounter upon loading the desktop is:
Software Failure!
Just for the record. In either case (nightly or Icaros boot) when you say "upon loading the desktop" does that mean you already have a GUI interface or is the software failure presented to you in the console (grub) shell ?

In case your setup is presenting the errors into something that looks like a GUI, then try to do a cold boot and press the space-bar directly after grub has selected which entry to boot from (timing is important there). It alows to bypass the workbench loading script. If it is in any way related to "loading wrong drivers" then you should be able to boot into a AROS GUI shell and be able to work with boot logs (which are far more elaborating). See debug=memory in grub and biftec to copy that boot information from memory into a conole window (or disk).

Im also puzzled by the 64 bit booting error message that refers to hidd (might be similar in nature as dizzy described earlier)

Quote
So, format the hard drive to FAT before I insert the AROS disk? OH! I really should have mentioned this in the OP, I'm installing this on a fresh 500 GB hard drive that I just received in the mail. Should I try formatting the drive to FAT first and then insert the AROS disc?
No... please do not format fat32 but rather remove any partion information. That is what aros installer needs as well as it uses free space (not allocated with fat) when attempt to install from the installer script. In case AROS is unable to prepare your drive (mind the bootblock protection in BIOS when present or even worse hidden (boot) partitions that Windows is famous for) then we can try to deal with that later.

If user dizzy is the same person as dizzyofCRN from the old aros-exec forums then i would stick with his observations and try to remove the ntfs/fat32 handler. If what he writes is the case then AROS seems to indicate wanting to try loading some drivers from your internal HD (or at least tries to make an attempt). I find the context in relation to your issue a bit odd though but that might be my inexperience with (your) specifc hardware.

@paolone and/or system developer:
Has that bugger sneaked into there again (that you are aware of) ?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 04, 2019, 09:26:23 AM
From experience my suspicion is that either the boot medium is damaged or AROS tries to locate the required libraries on a device that isn't accesible at that time during the boot process (hence the suggestion to disable internal boot device). fwiw we had a time period where AROS tried to locate the system files from the internal fat/ntfs disk when the volume label met "SYS" and when the fat/ntfs driver was enabled during boot (this should not be able to happen anymore).
The error is still present after creating a bootable thumb drive with VirtualBox (https://www.groovypost.com/howto/mount-usb-drive-virtualbox/)

Quote
Which nightlies, the ABIv1 or ABIv0 builds? Tried using the 64-bit build from the former source,
Sorry, my bad.

Icaros desktop is based on ABIv0 while the more advanced is ABIv1. For better information feedback it might be advisable to test with abiV1 but if you wish to stay on par with Icaros/AspireOS then try to replicate with v0 nightly. The v0 nightly boot should be 100% similar (minus perhaps added/removed drivers in AspireOS/Icaros).

I would also suggest to stick to 32-bit for the moment (AspireOS and Icaros are as well).
I'll see about giving those a try later.

Quote
and the error I encounter upon loading the desktop is:
Software Failure!
Just for the record. In either case (nightly or Icaros boot) when you say "upon loading the desktop" does that mean you already have a GUI interface or is the software failure presented to you in the console (grub) shell ?
After the shell finishes loading and the GUI first appears.

In case your setup is presenting the errors into something that looks like a GUI, then try to do a cold boot and press the space-bar directly after grub has selected which entry to boot from (timing is important there). It alows to bypass the workbench loading script. If it is in any way related to "loading wrong drivers" then you should be able to boot into a AROS GUI shell and be able to work with boot logs (which are far more elaborating). See debug=memory in grub and biftec to copy that boot information from memory into a conole window (or disk).
Just tried it a few times (Even spammed the spacebar immediately after Grub auto-selected), and I'm still encountering the error.

Quote
So, format the hard drive to FAT before I insert the AROS disk? OH! I really should have mentioned this in the OP, I'm installing this on a fresh 500 GB hard drive that I just received in the mail. Should I try formatting the drive to FAT first and then insert the AROS disc?
No... please do not format fat32 but rather remove any partion information. That is what aros installer needs as well as it uses free space (not allocated with fat) when attempt to install from the installer script. In case AROS is unable to prepare your drive (mind the bootblock protection in BIOS when present or even worse hidden (boot) partitions that Windows is famous for) then we can try to deal with that later.
Both FDisk and GParted LiveCD didn't find any already used space on the hard drive. If there's another program you'd like for me to use to check, I could, but this is also a fresh hard drive that I haven't installed anything on yet.

If user dizzy is the same person as dizzyofCRN from the old aros-exec forums then i would stick with his observations and try to remove the ntfs/fat32 handler. If what he writes is the case then AROS seems to indicate wanting to try loading some drivers from your internal HD (or at least tries to make an attempt). I find the context in relation to your issue a bit odd though but that might be my inexperience with (your) specifc hardware.
While not an exact 1-to-1 comparison, the compatability page over on Wikibooks (https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Platforms/x86_Complete_System_HCL#IBM/Lenovo) lists three different Yoga model laptops loading AROS without any extra work. However, those "tests" were 4-5 years ago. Should I also see if a build from back then will function?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 04, 2019, 10:55:48 AM
Quote
The error is still present after creating a bootable thumb drive with VirtualBox
Ok. As an additional test did you also happen to test if you are able to boot AROS from that thumbdrive with virtualbox ?

Quote
After the shell finishes loading and the GUI first appears.
Ok, that is very helpfull for your case.

Quote
Just tried it a few times (Even spammed the spacebar immediately after Grub auto-selected), and I'm still encountering the error.
fwiw, AROS boot sequence consist of first loading the kernel where it checks for some early boot conditions. The early boot menu is actually a graphical preboot environment that can be invoked when pressing both mousebuttons during startup. Another condition is that it checks for the spacebar. Keep it pressed from selection in grub through the first AROS GUI appearance. It might be that you still get an error requester but cancelling that requester should (in theory) allow you to enter the GUI shell window. Since no drivers are loaded or any other setup is done it is very spartanic (only internal shell commands are present), but we can help you with that when you are able to get there.

Do note that i have encountered situations in the past where the GUI stays blank after canceling the requester. Just give it another swirl and try again. Please report if you are unable to retreive an actual shell where you can enter commands after 2 or 3 tries.

Quote
Both FDisk and GParted LiveCD didn't find any already used space on the hard drive. If there's another program you'd like for me to use to check, I could, but this is also a fresh hard drive that I haven't installed anything on yet.
No, that should be enough. Thanks for checking and reporting back. As i said before the best/easiest thing would be if you are able to disable the internal drive and/or controller (or physically disconnect entirely). that would enable to pinpont the culprit the quickest and/or allows to see if we are on the right track here.

Quote
While not an exact 1-to-1 comparison, the compatability page over on Wikibooks lists three different Yoga model laptops loading AROS without any extra work. However, those "tests" were 4-5 years ago. Should I also see if a build from back then will function?
It can't hurt to try but i fear it might perhaps be a waste of time.

Sine you've now got a thumbdrive installation you might be able to tweak your installation a little with removing/renaming things such as particular libraries and/or handlers or your grub config. Make sure you got things backed up properly so that you are able to revert though.

It might perhaps be helpful to have a look here in this thread on old forums (https://ae.amigalife.org/old/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8937&forum=24) (in case you haven't already).
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 08, 2019, 07:07:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9vNpNSR.png)

A few questionable things occurred over the past few days. First, VirtualBox is no longer having it with installing AROS onto a USB (The USB seems to keep timing out at some point with the AROS installation and causes an error, this was happening with all attempts and I even tried another USB from a different brand and different size with the same result). So, I just figured that I'd use two more CDs to try to install the latest Nightly builds. Second, the ABIv1 20190107 (https://sourceforge.net/projects/aros/files/nightly2/20190107/Binaries/) actually loaded completely without any problems (Meanwhile the ABIv0 nightly (https://sourceforge.net/projects/aros/files/nightly/20190107/Binaries/) refused to start up at all, even forced the computer to restart after several minutes of nothing but a blank screen after my laptop showed the manufacturer's logo).

What does this mean?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: magorium on January 08, 2019, 07:30:15 AM
A few questionable things occurred over the past few days. First, VirtualBox is no longer having it with installing AROS onto a USB (The USB seems to keep timing out at some point with the AROS installation and causes an error, this was happening with all attempts and I even tried another USB from a different brand and different size with the same result).
Which version of VirtualBox and what Operating System are you using ? Note that afaik legacy USB has to be configured for your Virtual Machine and the USB pendrive must be blank. Also take note of the boot order and not enable a internal drive/controller in case you boot dircetly from the .iso file.

Quote
(Meanwhile the ABIv0 nightly (https://sourceforge.net/projects/aros/files/nightly/20190107/Binaries/) refused to start up at all, even forced the computer to restart after several minutes of nothing but a blank screen after my laptop showed the manufacturer's logo).
Which grub option did you choose from ? afaik the default option will attempt to load drivers for your graphics card if it is recognized but in case your gfx chipset is not 100% supported or having monitor issues then this can result in AROS being booted correctly except for not displaying an actual output for you. In that case choose the vesa option.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 08, 2019, 07:38:15 AM
Which version of VirtualBox and what Operating System are you using ? Note that afaik legacy USB has to be configured for your Virtual Machine and the USB pendrive must be blank. Also take note of the boot order and not enable a internal drive/controller in case you boot dircetly from the .iso file.
This happened first on v5.2 (Which worked just fine the previous day), and remained on v6.0. Also, this was on Icaros, and the Nightly builds, and this was without the use of a hard drive.

Which grub option did you choose from ? afaik the default option will attempt to load drivers for your graphics card if it is recognized but in case your gfx chipset is not 100% supported or having monitor issues then this can result in AROS being booted correctly except for not displaying an actual output for you. In that case choose the vesa option.
It didn't load grub at all.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: magorium on January 08, 2019, 07:55:30 AM
This happened first on v5.2 (Which worked just fine the previous day), and remained on v6.0. Also, this was on Icaros, and the Nightly builds, and this was without the use of a hard drive.
Did you perhaps by any chance mounted your USB pendrive as raw device and then attempted to install ? fwiw that is a no-go as it is able to destroy some pendrives. The way to do it is by using the host OS' virtual box USB drivers and then mount it to your virtual machine after AROS was boot up correctly from the mounted iso. Do note that VirtualBox is notorious for (re-)introducing bugs in those drivers (again and again unfortunately).

Also VirtualBox (especially in combination with AROS) has sometimes issues with time-outs provided with hubs that do not follow VirtalBox specifications. In that case try to mount from another (direct) header. Reboot of your Host OS is required when you run into such issues. AROS really only supports directly connected USB devices and in legacy (USB 1) mode only icw VirtualBox.

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It didn't load grub at all.
Ok, that is really wierd. The only thing i can think of is either a misburn or faulty el-torito. Especially when v1 boots correctly (which seems to indicate that your BIOS is handling things correctly).

Perhaps one of the more experienced people around are able to give a hand. Neil or Jyrki perhaps (not knowing which others are here)

PS: with regards to USB, also note that windows (in case you are using that as host) seems to 'mount' a pendrive differently when you boot with a pendrive inserted. Please don't ask me why but it seems to be capable to disturb VirtualBox' drivers somehow. Might or might not be relevant for your case perhaps.

PPS:
Quote
This happened first on v5.2 (Which worked just fine the previous day), and remained on v6.0
Also noteable: last time i checked, VB host OS drivers are not interchangeable between different versions
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: dizzy on January 08, 2019, 12:49:56 PM
I'm not sure if I could be of any help, but I'm still thinking that the partition library might have some doing with the error msg on first post.

Grub has an emergency shell that can show partitions. Maybe your pc has some sort of integrated device that aros tries to mount.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 08, 2019, 03:07:56 PM
This happened first on v5.2 (Which worked just fine the previous day), and remained on v6.0. Also, this was on Icaros, and the Nightly builds, and this was without the use of a hard drive.
Did you perhaps by any chance mounted your USB pendrive as raw device and then attempted to install ? fwiw that is a no-go as it is able to destroy some pendrives. The way to do it is by using the host OS' virtual box USB drivers and then mount it to your virtual machine after AROS was boot up correctly from the mounted iso. Do note that VirtualBox is notorious for (re-)introducing bugs in those drivers (again and again unfortunately).

Also VirtualBox (especially in combination with AROS) has sometimes issues with time-outs provided with hubs that do not follow VirtalBox specifications. In that case try to mount from another (direct) header. Reboot of your Host OS is required when you run into such issues. AROS really only supports directly connected USB devices and in legacy (USB 1) mode only icw VirtualBox.

PS: with regards to USB, also note that windows (in case you are using that as host) seems to 'mount' a pendrive differently when you boot with a pendrive inserted. Please don't ask me why but it seems to be capable to disturb VirtualBox' drivers somehow. Might or might not be relevant for your case perhaps.

PPS:
Quote
This happened first on v5.2 (Which worked just fine the previous day), and remained on v6.0
Also noteable: last time i checked, VB host OS drivers are not interchangeable between different versions
Pretty much did all that already. Even uninstalled VB, deleted the leftover files related to it, and then reinstalled the program and started from scratch. However, I don't know what you mean by "another (direct) header".

I'm not sure if I could be of any help, but I'm still thinking that the partition library might have some doing with the error msg on first post.

Grub has an emergency shell that can show partitions. Maybe your pc has some sort of integrated device that aros tries to mount.

You referring to the "ls" command? All it's displaying is the CD drive (That I have plugged in) and the hard drive.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: magorium on January 08, 2019, 03:37:45 PM
However, I don't know what you mean by "another (direct) header".
With that i meant a USB header that has nothing else connected to it but only your USB pendrive. Note that some motherboards internally link a single header to multiple external USB connectors.

If you pass-through the pendrive to your virtual machine (note the USB 1.x controller configuration in your AROS VM, no other devices attached in your VM but your ISO cd-rom) that has AROS running then AROS should (under normal circumstances) pop-up a requester that a new usb device was detected. It might be listed as a unknown device on the workbench or display fat or ntfs (depending on what information was found on the pendrive). From there on you should be able to run the installer script. Depending on wether you booted Icaros or a nightly build you can either install a special pendrive installation (icaros) or do a full install (icaros and nightly) where you can follow the installation instructions as mentioned in the Icaros User manual (wipe disk and all that).

The only other isse that you perhaps could encounter (and as far as i am able to remember correctly) is that a non activated device/storage could bug AROS with regards to pendrives. If that is the case then try a reformat of your pendrive using a partition manager on your host OS and set its main partition to active.

Oh, and if you do a full install of Icaros (DVD version) then it will take about half a day to install (USB 1.x speeds suck bigtime) and requires a pendrive of minimal 8 GB (so better check with a nightly first as that only contains the basics and will easily fit on a 1 GB or even smaller pendrive)
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 08, 2019, 08:28:34 PM
Yeah, it's still not working. AROS does register when I mount the USB in VB, and I can start the installation, but it still time's out after a certain point where it "freezes" for a few minutes and then produces and error. And, this was even with the "barebones" Icaros installation, after I restarted my entire computer after each action (First for wiping the thumbdrive in Windows, then after creating the SFS partition in VB), and after I unplugged all my USB devices aside from my keyboard and mouse.

Oh well. Given what I have, what can I do with the ABIv1 build that I burned to a disc (Since it's the only build of AROS that I can actually load) that would help solve the overall problem, or figure out why this problem is happening? Or, should I just install the nightly and call it a day?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: magorium on January 09, 2019, 04:07:21 AM
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Yeah, it's still not working. AROS does register when I mount the USB in VB, and I can start the installation, but it still time's out after a certain point where it "freezes" for a few minutes and then produces and error.
"after a certain" point is pretty vague at best :) .

One of the major advantages with a VM installation is that you are able to take screenshots of every step that you have taken.

Were you able to configure things like the size of your boot partition and work partition ? Did you opt for creating a work partition at all ? What are the sizes that you've allocate for those partitions, or did you just went for a single partition covering the whole pendrive ? How big is your pendrive ?

There can so many things go wrong there, even without taking into consideration that Paolone could have made an error somewhere in one of his scripts.

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And, this was even with the "barebones" Icaros installation, after I restarted my entire computer after each action (First for wiping the thumbdrive in Windows, then after creating the SFS partition in VB), and after I unplugged all my USB devices aside from my keyboard and mouse.
Yes, tedious i know. But once you got things working then you can start thinking about cutting corners and throwing out the manual.

fwiw: a complete nightly install on a pendrive usually takes me about 10 minutes.

Just something to take into consideration as well: i once had AROS installed on a pendrive that for some obscure reason seems to have so many cache that when AROS was done installing, the pendrive was still flushing its writes 10 minutes after the installation was finished. The only reason i noticed it is because that particular pendrive has a little light that flashes when it writes to it. Guess what happens if i took out the pendrive at that point or did a reboot of the machine (be it virtual or native). Note however that very few pendrives suffer from this but it was just my luck back then. Very scary situation when having to do multiple reboots during intallation.


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Oh well. Given what I have, what can I do with the ABIv1 build that I burned to a disc (Since it's the only build of AROS that I can actually load) that would help solve the overall problem, or figure out why this problem is happening? Or, should I just install the nightly and call it a day?
Well, if you wish to enjoy icaros then you are stuck with v0. So that would require you to install a v0 nightly and then manually installing Icaros on top of that. That is a tedious job.

For testing purposes, yes go ahead.

If you are able to boot up AROS (any distribution or nightly whatsoever) then you can start investigating what hardware is supported/recognized. Learn about your hardware and inform about your configuration.  So please boot it up, use PCI tool to discover your hardware and see if you are able to get sound and networking setup correctly. That way you are able to see how compatible AROS is with your hardware.

Perhaps the provided information is able to shed a light on why exactly a ABIv0 is unable to boot for you.

If you believe that it is satisfactory enough you could start thinking about installing (ic)AROS permanently on your internal HD, provided that we are able to discover what the culprit is (and are able to find a workaround that works for you).
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 09, 2019, 08:46:05 AM
ABIv1 doesn't have PCITools. Not yesterday's build, not today's build, and not the x64 build. However, I solved the problem with my thumbdrive (Apparently VirtualBox and AROS don't like a specific USB port on my desktop), so that option is available again, and I even tested it with the ABIv0 build (So back to the original problem).

Now, much earlier, you mentioned something about the Nightlies having a debugger that shows additional information. How do I access it?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 09, 2019, 10:01:06 AM
ABIv1 doesn't have PCITools. Not yesterday's build, not today's build, and not the x64 build.
Nonsense, see Sys:Developer/Debug/Hardware/PCITool for both i386 v1 bootiso from jan 8th and x64 v1 bootiso from jan 9th.

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However, I solved the problem with my thumbdrive (Apparently VirtualBox and AROS don't like a specific USB port on my desktop), so that option is available again, and I even tested it with the ABIv0 build (So back to the original problem).
Glad you was able to figure that out. Take note of it as things like this have a habit of haunting you.

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Now, much earlier, you mentioned something about the Nightlies having a debugger that shows additional information.
How do I access it?
Well, actually I did  (https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=154.msg869;topicseen#msg869) and not magorium (not that it matters much... 1 or 2 doors perhaps :) Thanks for the compliment though. In that posts it is written how to enable it in grub.

You can use bifteck to get a hold of it in a console window. Take note of bifteck related instructions here (https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Platforms/x86_installing#Unknown_root_partition_-_Error_100) (paths are wrong though, wiki is old).
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 09, 2019, 10:54:07 PM
Here's the PCITool report.

Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: dizzy on January 10, 2019, 06:18:39 AM
For starters you can only use the USB2.0 ports (if available outside) There is no working USB3.x driver for AROS.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 10, 2019, 06:27:59 AM
For starters you can only use the USB2.0 ports (if available outside) There is no working USB3.x driver for AROS.
Figured that by default (Which is why I've been plugging all my boot drives into the regular 2.0 port), but it seems to register my 3.0 port just fine. Or, is this in reference to VB?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 10, 2019, 07:30:13 AM
... but it seems to register my 3.0 port just fine. Or, is this in reference to VB?
It is Aros that is lacking driver support for 3.0. That they are registered properly is an added bonus feature :-)

BTW your pci info shows sata controller so the earlier posted link to the icaros desktop 2.x caveats and workarounds applies. Best would be to follow those instructions literally to see if any of it makes any differnce for you booting v0 abi. Use HD Toolbox (or your bootlog) to see if you are able to discover any hidden storage device(s) as suspected by dizzy. I would suggest to give it another try with a pendrive installation booting a v0 nightly and system debug grub addition in case it is able to get that far.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 10, 2019, 08:35:14 PM
Best would be to follow those instructions literally to see if any of it makes any differnce for you booting v0 abi. Use HD Toolbox (or your bootlog) to see if you are able to discover any hidden storage device(s) as suspected by dizzy.
Okay. When I load it up HDTool (On v1), it displays 5 devices: "scsi.device" (Units: 0), "ata.device" (Units: 0), "ahci.device" (Units: 1), "usbscsi.device" (Units: 0), and "usbmss.device" (Units: 0). Only "ahci.device" is selectable, and, when I do open it, it displays a selectable "Unit 0" and:
Size: 7.8G
Partition Table: PC-MBR
Partitions: 0

Also (On v0), deleting the ahci.device entry line in Grub didn't change much of anything aside from a screen briefly popping up, after the shell, stating that AROS is waiting for a bootable media, just before loading the GUI and delivers the error.

I would suggest to give it another try with a pendrive installation booting a v0 nightly and system debug grub addition in case it is able to get that far.
On v0, the error still appears upon loading the GUI, but I kept seeing the shell displaying something have to do with "poseidon.library " and "dos.library" popping up along with "Initresident". Is there a way I can get a more "complete" report for you?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 11, 2019, 02:39:57 AM
Quote
Okay. When I load it up HDTool (On v1), it displays 5 devices: "scsi.device" (Units: 0), "ata.device" (Units: 0), "ahci.device" (Units: 1), "usbscsi.device" (Units: 0), and "usbmss.device" (Units: 0). Only "ahci.device" is selectable, and, when I do open it, it displays a selectable "Unit 0" and:
Size: 7.8G
Partition Table: PC-MBR
Partitions: 0
Is it correct to state that you have booted from a sata dvd player, with a dvd ?

Things seem to look normal there.

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Also (On v0), deleting the ahci.device entry line in Grub didn't change much of anything aside from a screen briefly popping up, after the shell, stating that AROS is waiting for a bootable media, just before loading the GUI and delivers the error.
This is for me still a bit of a wierd situation.

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On v0, the error still appears upon loading the GUI, but I kept seeing the shell displaying something have to do with "poseidon.library " and "dos.library" popping up along with "Initresident".
Usually such errors occur when during boot the kernel is unable to locate some specifc files or otherwise gets interrupted.

Disturbance from plug and play comes to mind but afaik that usually happens sooner in the boot-process. Same goes for DVD player spinning down (and not up again). Did you perhaps noticed anything in particular with regards to that ?

Quote
Is there a way I can get a more "complete" report for you?
Yes, there is but not many motherboards have a port for it anymore. The output you see during boot (and after) can be captured by a serial device. The only other possibility is when you are able to at least get a shell window up and then "capture" the log output with bifteck.

It is a shame as you seem pretty close, about stuck at 1" before 3th base.

Unfortunately i'm running out of idea's pretty fast now so in case anyone watching this has an idea then please feel free to jump in.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 11, 2019, 05:26:57 AM
Yes, there is but not many motherboards have a port for it anymore. The output you see during boot (and after) can be captured by a serial device. The only other possibility is when you are able to at least get a shell window up and then "capture" the log output with bifteck.
How about a video of the shell loading with the debug (https://anonfile.com/c2C9o5q6b8/20190110_201903_mp4) (That I recorded on my phone)? Be aware that the file is...rather large.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 13, 2019, 06:17:49 AM
I think I may have found the source of my problems!

Decided to just say the heck with it and install the ABIv1 build, however I...actually cannot. For some reason, the AROS installer states that the "Drive is full". I didn't want to do a wipe just in case it breaks the hard drive (Especially since the drive is empty), so I started searching the the previous forum archives for that specific issue error message. And, it wasn't until I inputted into the search "Disk is full SATA" that I finally started getting somewhere. A poster by the name of "nikolaos" (I'm assuming nikos (https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?action=profile;u=4)' previous account) made a some (https://archive.fo/iSK5v) threads (https://archive.fo/nl8cD) about his hard drive with changing the "SATA support". Remembering that you guys were talking about that as well, and pointed to this post (https://archive.fo/cLgOY) on common fixes (It went way over my head at the time and I didn't fully understand what you were hitting at), I finally decided to start searching the internet on how to change the mode on my hard drive to IDE or AHCI (Because the BIOS sure wasn't giving me options to do it). Eventually, I stumbled across this article: Lenovo slammed for OS-locking BIOS block (https://archive.fo/nGCJ5)
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The consumer PC arm of tech giant Lenovo has denied locking alternative operating systems out of its Yoga family of laptops, but evidence suggests the presence of a very deliberate BIOS lock for exactly that purpose.

Lenogo's Yoga 900 and 900S convertible laptops, boasting what Lenovo describes as 360-degree hinges designed to easily convert between laptop and tablet modes, are available with a bloat-free variant of Windows 10 installed known as Windows 10 Signature Edition. These machines have been tempting those looking to ditch the factory-fitted operating system - and, in the case of Lenovo's consumer offerings, possibly with very good reason (https://archive.fo/N0l9A) - in favour of alternative operating systems such as GNU/Linux or a BSD variant.

Unfortunately, it turns out that's not possible. Users have taken to social media to complain that the storage device in these laptops is locked into a RAID mode - an odd choice for a single-drive system - which is exclusively compatible with Windows 10 with the installation of a Lenovo-penned driver module. Those attempting to install any other operating system - including older versions of Windows - find the storage device entirely absent from the list of places on which to install said operating system.

'Our Yoga design requires very specific, complex and unique drivers that require even greater amounts of testing, to ensure class-leading performance with Windows 10. To support our Yoga products and our industry-leading 360-hinge design in the best way possible we have used a storage controller mode that is unfortunately not supported by Linux and as a result, does not allow Linux to be installed,' Lenovo has claimed in a statement (https://archive.fo/TpFWS) on the matter, published late last night. 'Beyond the controller setup limitation, other advanced capabilities of the Yoga design would likely not work with current Linux offerings. Lenovo does not intentionally block customers using other operating systems such as Linux on Yoga or any of its devices and is fully committed to providing Linux certifications and installation guidance on a wide range of suitable products.'

The trouble with Lenovo's explanation is that it doesn't hold water. The use of a RAID mode for storage devices has no impact on the clever-or-otherwise hinge mode. More tellingly, users have succeeded in modifying the stock BIOS (https://archive.fo/9Ufn9) to allow a previously unavailable AHCI storage mode to be selected - at which point installing any third-party operating system becomes entirely possible, and the laptop works perfectly during and after installation. Lenovo's statement also flies in the face of a comment received by an affected user from Lenovo's official support department, published to reddit (https://archive.fo/szdXD) as part of a complaint thread: 'This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft.'

Now, as I said in the OP, my laptop is a Yoga 2 13, which started seeing released back in 2013. However, later in August of 2015, there was an update to the BIOS (https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/LAPTOPS-AND-NETBOOKS/YOGA-SERIES/YOGA-2-13-NOTEBOOK-LENOVO/downloads/DS100939) (That I'm assuming has a similar functionality to the lock-out mentioned in the above article), and I must have installed it while I was using windows 8/10 at the time (My hard drive failed just last year, and that's when I decided to start making the OS switch). And, looking at my laptop's "official" drivers, there isn't a "known" way for me to back flash it like the Yoga 900 users (https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/yoga-series/yoga-900-13isk2/downloads/ds119354) were eventually able to.

So, overall, where does that leave things?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 13, 2019, 08:17:00 PM
How about a video of the shell loading with the debug (https://anonfile.com/c2C9o5q6b8/20190110_201903_mp4) (That I recorded on my phone)? Be aware that the file is...rather large.
Yes, that for sure helps (sorry i didn't think of that myself). I got two remarks on that a) the resolution is ridiculous (perhaps not something you are ale to do something about at recording time) and b) it skips the last say about 10 seconds for me. So i had some delay in trying to fix that (sorry for that)

Just for the record: what version of AROS are you booting there exactly ? I seem to be missing some output ?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 13, 2019, 08:32:40 PM
So, overall, where does that leave things?
So, you are telling that you are unable to turn off secure boot in your BIOS ? Changing BIOS to use legacy boot does not change anything ?

afaik AROS does not support secure boot at all.

Just as a side-track, are you able to install (v1 as that seems to boot for you) onto a sd-card (i've just noticed your hardware has a sd-card slot)

I'm a bit stuck with your installation of v1 issue as it seems a problem that was encountered during icaros desktop 2.x Wip releases (which is v0 abi). Same user methanoid reported something similar earlier in another thread, which seems more in line with your specific issue (i'll dig up that thread in case interrested, i can't find it back atm). Everything seems to boot fine but installing  onto internal SSD causes AROS to throw errors.

With regards to abiv0 it would be helpfull if you are able to give it another try and get into the early boot menu (press both left and right mousebuttons right after grub menu entry is booting) and have some pictures of that menu. In case your mouse isn't working in the EBM, then unplug and insert you mouse again (that usually helps). Then select to boot without startup-sequence to see if you are able to boot into a shell. If that works we could take the next step in attempting to identify the issue.

In case anyone else has an idea then please feel free to jump in. Also because I usually do not use V1 abi at all. A Aros developer might have better information with regards to v1 ABI, but systemn developers seems less active on the forums.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 13, 2019, 08:39:06 PM
How about a video of the shell loading with the debug (https://anonfile.com/c2C9o5q6b8/20190110_201903_mp4) (That I recorded on my phone)? Be aware that the file is...rather large.
Yes, that for sure helps (sorry i didn't think of that myself). I got two remarks on that a) the resolution is ridiculous (perhaps not something you are ale to do something about at recording time)
I can control that to an extent, and I set all the quality settings to the max figuring it would deliver the best clarity because earlier attempts had some of the text in the shell blurring together because of the screen's glow. I'll see about making it a more reasonable size next time.

b) it skips the last say about 10 seconds for me. So i had some delay in trying to fix that (sorry for that)
It's okay.

Just for the record: what version of AROS are you booting there exactly ? I seem to be missing some output ?
The ABIv0 build from last Monday. (https://sourceforge.net/projects/aros/files/nightly/20190107/Binaries/)

So, overall, where does that leave things?
So, you are telling that you are unable to turn off secure boot in your BIOS ? Changing BIOS to use legacy boot does not change anything ?
There is no secure boot option, unless I set to boot mode for UEFI. And, I have changed the BIOS to allow USB legacy support, set boot mode to legacy support, set boot priority to legacy first, and changed the OS optimized defaults to Other OS. But, the problem is that I cannot find a way to actually change the SATA hard drive's mode to AHCI or IDE.

Just as a side-track, are you able to install (v1 as that seems to boot for you) onto a sd-card (i've just noticed your hardware has a sd-card slot)
Didn't know that I can do that. I'll see about giving it a whirl.

I'm a bit stuck with your installation of v1 issue as it seems a problem that was encountered during icaros desktop 2.x Wip releases (which is v0 abi). Same user methanoid reported something similar earlier in another thread, which seems more in line with your specific issue (i'll dig up that thread in case interrested, i can't find it back atm). Everything seems to boot fine but installing  onto internal SSD causes AROS to throw errors.

With regards to abiv0 it would be helpfull if you are able to give it another try and get into the early boot menu (press both left and right mousebuttons right after grub menu entry is booting) and have some pictures of that menu. In case your mouse isn't working in the EBM, then unplug and insert you mouse again (that usually helps). Then select to boot without startup-sequence to see if you are able to boot into a shell. If that works we could take the next step in attempting to identify the issue.
I know that the premade Icaros Grub options allows for the user to enter early boot without having to use any keyboard shortcuts. Would that still work? Never mind.

In case anyone else has an idea then please feel free to jump in. Also because I usually do not use V1 abi at all. A Aros developer might have better information with regards to v1 ABI, but systemn developers seems less active on the forums.
So, try to keep everything restricted to ABIv0. Okay.

EDIT: Actually, now I'm wondering something. Just to make sure that the problem isn't a complete OS lock-out (And just a problem with AROS), should I try to see if I can install a different OS, something light like FreeDOS or TempleOS (Something I can easily remove)?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 13, 2019, 11:13:23 PM
Quote
I can control that to an extent, and I set all the quality settings to the max figuring it would deliver the best clarity because earlier attempts had some of the text in the shell blurring together because of the screen's glow. I'll see about making it a more reasonable size next time.
Well, i am currently bound to full-hd but tbh 320x200 or something to that extend should be enough  :P

But on a more serious note, the glaring is still there because the rates of recording and monitor are not in sync and there is not much that can be done about that (unless you happen to have a high-speed camera or an output capturing device).


Quote
The ABIv0 build from last Monday.
Oke, thanks for the info.

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There is no secure boot option, unless I set to boot mode for UEFI. And, I have changed the BIOS to allow USB legacy support, set boot mode to legacy support, set boot priority to legacy first, and changed the OS optimized defaults to Other OS. But, the problem is that I cannot find a way to actually change the SATA hard drive's mode to AHCI or IDE.
I understand. Sorry for the mantra but it happens on occasion that instructions are not always followed. I had to work with stills and therefor was not sure which way your BIOS implemented it (seems to be the other way around as i thought).

That should be ok, except for the fact that you seem unable to change SATA mode. Usually that can be solved with the grub option(s) as mentioned in the caveats and workaround threads.

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Didn't know that I can do that. I'll see about giving it a whirl.
afaik you have two options there, either native boot from cd/dvd and install directly onto SD or use your virtual machine.

Do note though that when going the raw device way in case your host machine has an sd-card reader/writer that you can only do that when you mount the sd-card as raw device to your VBox (please read the VBOX manual thoroughly on that subject). That is a bit risky because it allows you to mount the wrong device (such as your internal HD or a pendrive that happens to be inserted). Numbers are everything there so make sure you check and double-check or are able to revert in case something goes wrong.

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I know that the premade Icaros Grub options allows for the user to enter early boot without having to use any keyboard shortcuts. Would that still work? Never mind.
I still answer in case someone else is reading this thread:
Yes, that should still work although i don't know the grub option from memory so i would have to check in the source-tree of AROS. The mouse-button-press should be able to do the trick though (unless your USB hardware is entirely unsupported by AROS).

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So, try to keep everything restricted to ABIv0. Okay.
Well, you can of course do as you wish :) It is just that i'm unable to provide any help that is accurate enough. I stopped experimenting with v1 when things changed about every other day and i was unable to keep up with the changes.

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EDIT: Actually, now I'm wondering something. Just to make sure that the problem isn't a complete OS lock-out (And just a problem with AROS), should I try to see if I can install a different OS, something light like FreeDOS or TempleOS (Something I can easily remove)?
Yes, i was already thinking to suggest that but the first thing that popped into mind was a linux distro as that is usually the easiest to install but afaik that supports secureboot in this day and age (unless locked entirely) ? But indeed you can try that in order to verify.

On another note that also happens to be mentioned in that same thread as methanoid posted, nikos seem to have experienced something unusual with regards to the device numbering depending on enabling ahci or not but your HD-toolbox from successfull v1 boot seems to report it correctly. Ah well, you probably have digged yourself through many of the threads already....
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 14, 2019, 08:30:54 AM
FreeDOS was able to install, but I experienced several hiccups along the way. Haiku either crashed or froze (Even on UEFI) before I could even do anything.

Should I just take the plunge and install Windows 8.1 on the darn thing, free up enough drive space to install AROS, and then see if I can dualboot it? Or will it not make much of a difference?
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 14, 2019, 10:22:31 PM
Sorry to hear that nothing seems to be working for you transdude1996  :'(

Thank you for your patience and feedback so far. Perhaps it can be addressed (developer wise or instruction wise) when a more qualified person is around.

Dual booting should not make a difference whatsoever. It would even complicate things a bit more with regards to overwriting bootblock.

Another option for you might perhaps be be to run AROS hosted. Icaros should also be able to run hosted on your device. That can be done with Windows or Linux as host. Linux would imo be the better option there because of available drivers to the host.

With a bit of tweaking you could directly boot x into AROS so that Linux won't be as visible.

Another route in that regards can be aeros as that contains both the Linux and AROS parts. Note that i don't use aeros myself though so you might want to speak to user phoenixkonsole in case you have questions/issues about aeros.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 15, 2019, 04:48:11 AM
Well, that sucks. Was hoping to begin migrating away from using Windows given the fresh hard drive on my laptop. Well, actually, I could still do that by having my desktop and my other laptop (Which, I honestly don't use that often because of how sensitive it is with the battery connection is) dualboot AROS since both seemed to load the drives without any problems.

Also, I don't really want to use UNIX. Anyways, thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: origami on January 17, 2019, 01:45:39 AM
Quote
Well, that sucks. Was hoping to begin migrating away from using Windows given the fresh hard drive on my laptop.
Depending on your needs i would not qualify AROS as being suited to replace a full-fledged OS like Windows.

AROS is alpha software, and it will stay that way for quite a while (unless a shiteload of developers come along all of a sudden).

It is enough for (some of) my (special) needs but AROS is lacking in many departments.

If i've done my homework correctly then AROS won't be of much help with your video editing for example.

Quote
Also, I don't really want to use UNIX. Anyways, thanks for the help.
Well, you do not have to ...

Either load it directly on top of your linux in which case you are using linux for the bare minimum only e.g. providing a suited host environment or use Windows as a host.

The reason to mention linux is that developers themselves use such a setup and therefor linux has the better driver support e.g. AROS utilizing the host OS API.

Mind you, running AROS hosted might even provide a better experience then running it natively.

For instance for native you have to be lucky with regards to having your gfx/audio/network hardware hardware supported.


Provided that you are running some linux that has all (suitable) drivers available for your hardware then AROS works with about any hardware out of the box and for instance allows accelerated graphics. Windows hosted is a bit less supported in that area.

At the same time hosted allows you to get yourself familiar with AROS (icaros) and see for yourself what it is lacking.

fwiw AROS hosted runs as any other application on the host. There are no extra's required. You can even install/run multiple instances of AROS next to eachother. V0, V1, icaros they all can be installed side by side and invoked at any time you wish.

I have AROS running on my pi with no x running/installed. Just bare bones. Although admittingly it has its merits (but that is probably due to arm not being a prime target for the developers).
Title: Re: Error message when loading the desktop (Native)
Post by: Transdude1996 on January 18, 2019, 11:11:56 PM
Quote
Well, that sucks. Was hoping to begin migrating away from using Windows given the fresh hard drive on my laptop.
Depending on your needs i would not qualify AROS as being suited to replace a full-fledged OS like Windows.

AROS is alpha software, and it will stay that way for quite a while (unless a shiteload of developers come along all of a sudden).

It is enough for (some of) my (special) needs but AROS is lacking in many departments.

If i've done my homework correctly then AROS won't be of much help with your video editing for example.
As far as I know, it's still one of the only viable options out there. While you did always have the option of using Linux instead of Windows or Mac due to it's support over the years, events towards the end of last year pretty much destroyed the reputation and faith Linux had (Not to mention how vast amounts of the code can get scrubbed at any time thanks to the legal powers former contributers have). With events stemming from that, options have become limited on alternatives. You do have some OSes out there like FreeDOS (http://www.freedos.org/) and TempleOS (https://archive.org/download/TempleOS_ISO_Archive/TempleOSCDV4.13.ISO)/ShrineOS (https://github.com/minexew/Shrine), but the former is pretty much irrelevant for any computer made after the turn of the century (Unless you're installing it on DosBox), and the latter is a meme that can't be used for much else aside from programming and talking to God (Unless DivineOS (https://github.com/DivineSystems/DivineOS) actually goes anywhere). BSD is safe bet for UNIX users if you stick to OpenBSD (https://www.openbsd.org), NetBSD (https://netbsd.org/), and Dragonfly (https://www.dragonflybsd.org/). However, I'm not all that trusting of using an OS from the 70's (Which became..."outdated" 20 years later (https://infogalactic.com/info/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs)) due to how needlessly complicated it's infamously become, going by what I've heard.

Overall, guess it would be a good idea to pick up programming in the near future.