Sorry, many question.

mph · 1160

mph

  • Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 9
    • Karma: +0/-0
  • Oh No! Recursion! Again!
Reply #15 on: December 16, 2021, 11:30:11 PM
Also the SHELL or CLI you can release and use while running something, to do this you have to use
Run >Nil:
This parameter also in front of any App (but also in the back) will not even show comments or errors

You nailed it. That's what I was looking for. 

I'm 99.9~% fatalist. I couldn't tell you where the rest comes from?


magorium

  • Senior Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 335
    • Karma: +50/-0
  • Convicted non contributor
Reply #16 on: December 16, 2021, 11:39:00 PM

Quote
For the Amiga, there is a history (family) of MPUs that started with the MC68000. From there you had the MC68010, MC68020, etc. Some things compiled for the MC68020 cannot be ran on the MC68000.
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification, and my bad.


AROS' lowest target for m68k is 68020 atm.


Quote
For the Intel family of CPUs, people often say i386; when they really probably mean x86. I remember back in the early 90's most people just said i386 for every common consumer Intel CPU. But eventually the distinction became more important. For example, modern Linux can not run on i386. Support for i386 was dropped at the end of 2012. Debian still offers a i486 kernel. But many Distros, that still support x86, only support i686. With i686 support, you can use Pentium Pro, Pentium II, and newer. But you cannot use a PentiumMMX. Many modern operating systems only support x86_64. They dropped support for the x86 family of CPUs.
Good question to which I do not know the answer atm. I would have to resort to emulation in order to verify that.


Quote
In the list of Aros tested computers, I noticed at least one computer with a Pentium II. I don't know how long ago that was tested. 
If memory serves me correctly i had AROS running on a pentium 1 machine. But also on a n270 (atom)


Quote
In case anyone is wondering, Linux and Windows 95 (and newer) are preemptive multitasking. Window 3.11 had cooperative multitasking. However,  I was told that the cli applications were preemptive.


In a way, I was hopping that Aros was cooperatively multitasked. Since there isn't already established memory protection, I was guessing that it was cooperative.
Yeah and i was writing down the wrong answer (corrected it later in my original post). Sorry for that.


From origin it is preemptive. But i lack the knowledge of the current implementation on x86.


Quote
I should clarify this one a little. One thing I had wondered here, is if Grub2 is a fork of grub;
Grub2 is the successor of grub (1).


Quote
specifically altered for Aros.
No alteration, unless you count sfs filesystem support module as such.


Quote
For the most part boot loaders are independent of their OS. For example Syslinux boots Dos, Windows, KolibriOS, and Linux. If I installed Aros to one partition and Sysliux was on another, I could boot Aros it with Syslinux. But then it would run Grub2 right after Syslinux.


At the grub boot screen, I pressed 'e' to look over the boot config. I'm going look further at how Aros boots in the near future. Its very interesting. But I doubt Syslinux could replace Grub.
Yeah syslinux is interresting in case you have hardware that does not play nice with grub as it is able to chainload grub in such cases.


afaik there is no support for syslinux, only grub (and now grub2, since linux moved to grub 2)


Quote
Yeah, I worded that badly. I was wondering if anyone has downloaded software that can run on Aros. Then organized them all in a Folder Library. Then uploaded as a Zip or Iso. I don't mean like the torrents of Amiga completed collections of copyrighted software. I mean, like a collection of things you can get from Aros-exec.   
Ah, my bad interpretation :-)


Your best best is the Icaros Desktop DVD that has all software that is available on it. The rest is scattered around the interwebs, Aros archives being one of them.


The Icaros DVD has them in separate packages which you can opt to install or not during the installation process. But you are probably smart enough to locate the archives and extract software from there manually ;-)


Quote
I agree that most people don't see IRC as p2p software. But some people use IRC in a very similar fashion as DC++. For example, there is a DJ hub on DC++ where artists join and share all of their work. Its kinda nice to have a place like that, without being tied to a website or commercial service. Amigift was pretty cool. I like the concept of a chat client/server that is also a file server in one package. I get that piracy gives p2p a bad reputation. But certainly the capabilities of IRC fit the definition of many p2p clients.
Ah ok, i see. dc+ is/was nice indeed. Unfortunately no such client for AROS. I do not know of any other p2p software for AROS atm.




Quote
f you use the shell to compress a large file, the shell will be tied up until the compression is done.


For example: "zip collection collection.zip"


In bash you can use & to escape this, and continue to use the same shell. "zip collection collection.zip&"
Oh, you mean like in linux bash shell ? Should work for AROS' sh as well ;-)


But you can open as many cli's as you wish and set them to work (or not). You can also _run_ a command in the background.



mph

  • Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 9
    • Karma: +0/-0
  • Oh No! Recursion! Again!
Reply #17 on: December 17, 2021, 12:03:05 AM
Your best best is the Icaros Desktop DVD that has all software that is available on it. The rest is scattered around the interwebs, Aros archives being one of them.

The Icaros DVD has them in separate packages which you can opt to install or not during the installation process. But you are probably smart enough to locate the archives and extract software from there manually ;-)

Actually, that's a good idea. I didn't realize each was in a package like that. I wonder why they did it that way? Did they add a software selection option, during install, and I just missed it? 

Quote
Ah ok, i see. dc+ is/was nice indeed. Unfortunately no such client for AROS. I do not know of any other p2p software for AROS atm.

Amigift had support for Gnutella. It would need to be reworked, to make it more community supportive. There used to be a Java based client called Phex. It gave the option to connect to the main network, or you could create your own; by choosing a name for it. It was chat capable. But I think it lacked "chat rooms".

I'm 99.9~% fatalist. I couldn't tell you where the rest comes from?


AMIGASYSTEM

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1512
    • Karma: +45/-1
  • AROS One
    • AROS One
Reply #18 on: December 17, 2021, 12:34:10 AM

Actually, that's a good idea. I didn't realize each was in a package like that. I wonder why they did it that way? Did they add a software selection option, during install, and I just missed it? 


Yes the full version of Icaros at the end of the installation asks if you want to install the extra software, if I accept it does it silently and it seems that it does nothing, probably you thought the installation was finished.

On my Distro instead I used the traditional method, all the extra software I chose is installed in Extras all in thematic folders.


magorium

  • Senior Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 335
    • Karma: +50/-0
  • Convicted non contributor
Reply #19 on: December 17, 2021, 12:36:45 AM
Quote
I didn't realize each was in a package like that.
Note that there are a few packages (let's call them groups) as for example development and games. Each individual package (depending on which software titles are included) can make use of a so called package install script that is required for the OS in order to locate the software correctly (they are installed by the installer) and usually resides inside the "s" directory and are called automatically by the startup sequence (it's a little magic inside s-s).

Such 'package' scripts do for example add assigns/mountlist/expand the path or do other stuff in order to make the individual software titles accessible and/or work.

Quote
I wonder why they did it that way?
History.

Quote
Did they add a software selection option, during install, and I just missed it? 
Initially the default AROS installer had no provision for installing additional software.

And to answer another question someone else had (was it Salvo or AmigaSystem ?) that is why the extra's package was created. It allows for the installer to launch an additional installer. For Icaros Desktop this means launching a gui tool that allows you to select individual packages from a list that can be selected/deselected.

This way allows for the specially crafted AROS installer to both support basic installations as well as 'distro's. The installer was initially never intended to support the latter.

If you tap the extra software option checkbox during installation of Icaros Desktop then the selection box should pop up when you continue the installation as usual (it will pop up later during the install), but don't pinpoint me on the exact timing where the package selection pops-up though, as it has been a while since i last used it :-/

The cd version has only a small subset of packages whilst the dvd should contain all available software. Painstakingly collected by paolone over the many years, and there are some software tiles in there that can not be found anywhere else.

Quote
Amigift had support for Gnutella
AROS is source compatible as long as the source does not contain cpu specific instructions (well for that specific cpu it would then ofc). So if you have sources of any amiga program which is written in c you should be able to compile it for AROS *hint hint* ;-)

Anything not working that way is considered a bug and should be reported.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 12:44:40 AM by magorium »



salvo

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1581
    • Karma: +20/-4
  • Peace an Love
    • TinyAros
Reply #20 on: December 17, 2021, 12:01:04 PM
What was the name of the Bars n Pipes Author again?

Alfred Faust maybe? I seem to remember he kept asking for assistance with the CAMD system but no one was willing to help. I didn't know anything about it so I couldn't help him.

yes Miker Alfred Faust

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=496.0

TinyAros and shop  http://tinyaros.flazio.com
HP Z400 Workstation, Intel Xeon W3565 3.20 Ghz, 8 Gb Ram, SSD 120 Gb, HD 500 Gb, Quadro nvs 295 256 Mb Gallium Ready


mph

  • Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 9
    • Karma: +0/-0
  • Oh No! Recursion! Again!
Reply #21 on: December 18, 2021, 06:52:31 AM
That's kinda funny. I've wanted to investigate driver development for Aros. That is one reason I wanted to know how Aros interacted with serial and parallel ports. I have some interfaces that would require me to write drivers (serial/parallel), to use them with Aros. But the same question, for me anyway, relates to Usb midi.

Many of my deeper questions can be answered once I start looking at source. I don't want to join a mailing list or anything. I hardly want to bother Aros devs.

I still haven't looked too deep. But certainly Aros is more mature than I expected (system level).

https://aros.sourceforge.io/documentation/developers/specifications/drafts/exec.php

It seems Aros uses a microkernel named Exec, just like Amiga.

In my opinion, it would be huge if Aros had low-ish latency midi. One of my main draws to Aros, is music (potential). A nice clean, uncluttered, single user OS.  I'd give a swing at getting my hands dirty. No promises. There is a lot to get familiar with.

I'm 99.9~% fatalist. I couldn't tell you where the rest comes from?


Jeff1138

  • Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 14
    • Karma: +0/-0
Reply #22 on: December 18, 2021, 07:26:54 AM
Hi,

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=496.0

For USB use

NB.: here is the text at the top of the source to the camdusbmidi.class
/*
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 *                         camdusbmidi class for poseidon
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 *                   By Chris Hodges <chrisly@platon42.de>
 */

/* TODO: Somebody needs to port the assembly 68k camd driver to something that is used under AROS! */


Regards
Jeff




miker1264

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1224
    • Karma: +80/-2
Reply #23 on: December 18, 2021, 07:49:28 AM
@mph

Welcome to AROS development.

That's how it begins with an area of personal interest. I got involved with AROS because I have an interest in icons and graphics. Developing small apps for AROS or updating some existing system components for AROS is interesting to me.

For AROS x86 the main distribution is "IcarosDesktop" which is maintained by @paolone who does a great job of assembling and distributing the ISO images for each release. There are a few other x86 distros such as Tiny AROS and AROS One x86 which are maintained by others. The system files for x86 come from the Alt-ABIv0 repository which deadwood maintains. He also does a great job of assembling, compiling and testing.

We also have IcarosDesktop x86_64 which is more experimental. Not as much third party software is available for x86_64 because it is relatively new in the world of Amiga-like OS'es. The IcarosDesktop x86_64 is also maintained by paolone. I use it for testing purposes as well as IcarosDesktop x86.

There is also AROS 68k which is very much similar to Classic Amiga OS. It is binary compatible. Components of Amiga OS3 can be used on AROS 68k without recompiling. Many datatypes and small applications and games are examples of that.

As far as development for AROS 68k & AROS x86 & AROS x86_64 we used to have a mailing list but no more. That was moved to the Slack Channels. That was active for several years. Now there are only a few developers left working on ABIv1 which is 64bit only and 68k. ABIv1 does not include 32bit code.

Here at AROS Exec deadwood is the main developer with many years of experience. There are a few others with much experience such as Yannick. Then there are beginners like me.

We communicate and collaborate but mostly work on projects that are of interest. There is much code samples available in the Github repositories. We have Main and Contrib. The Contrib Repo has much of the third party apps and libraries. There you will find some music related projects that may be of interest.

Welcome again!




miker1264

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1224
    • Karma: +80/-2
Reply #24 on: December 18, 2021, 07:56:06 AM
Hi,

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=496.0

For USB use

NB.: here is the text at the top of the source to the camdusbmidi.class
/*
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 *                         camdusbmidi class for poseidon
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 *                   By Chris Hodges <chrisly@platon42.de>
 */

/* TODO: Somebody needs to port the assembly 68k camd driver to something that is used under AROS! */


Regards
Jeff

Hmmm...

That last bit is for a developer interested in music.  ;)



salvo

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1581
    • Karma: +20/-4
  • Peace an Love
    • TinyAros
Reply #25 on: December 18, 2021, 12:42:26 PM
Mah Alfred was working on it but the driver is missing to interface with the camd.library

TinyAros and shop  http://tinyaros.flazio.com
HP Z400 Workstation, Intel Xeon W3565 3.20 Ghz, 8 Gb Ram, SSD 120 Gb, HD 500 Gb, Quadro nvs 295 256 Mb Gallium Ready


AMIGASYSTEM

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1512
    • Karma: +45/-1
  • AROS One
    • AROS One
Reply #26 on: December 18, 2021, 01:18:44 PM
If you can play MIDI on AROS 68k you can also do it from AROS x86!


salvo

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1581
    • Karma: +20/-4
  • Peace an Love
    • TinyAros
Reply #27 on: December 18, 2021, 02:15:27 PM
No discussed how to interface MIDI hardware on sequencer :)

TinyAros and shop  http://tinyaros.flazio.com
HP Z400 Workstation, Intel Xeon W3565 3.20 Ghz, 8 Gb Ram, SSD 120 Gb, HD 500 Gb, Quadro nvs 295 256 Mb Gallium Ready


Fats

  • Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 5
    • Karma: +1/-0
Reply #28 on: December 22, 2021, 10:59:29 PM
From origin it is preemptive. But i lack the knowledge of the current implementation on x86.

AROS is preemptive multitasking on all platforms. The caveat though is that each task can disable the task switching.



magorium

  • Senior Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 335
    • Karma: +50/-0
  • Convicted non contributor
Reply #29 on: December 24, 2021, 07:27:03 PM
@Staf
Thank you for the additional information. Good to know.

@mph:
Quote
For the Intel family of CPUs, people often say i386; when they really probably mean x86. I remember back in the early 90's most people just said i386 for every common consumer Intel CPU. But eventually the distinction became more important. For example, modern Linux can not run on i386. Support for i386 was dropped at the end of 2012. Debian still offers a i486 kernel. But many Distros, that still support x86, only support i686. With i686 support, you can use Pentium Pro, Pentium II, and newer. But you cannot use a PentiumMMX. Many modern operating systems only support x86_64. They dropped support for the x86 family of CPUs.
I am now able to let you know that i am unable to let it run on a i386 emulator.

The closest/lowest I am able to get is 486, as is written here ( http://www.aros.org/documentation/users/installation.php#id1 ) as well :
Quote
You will need a PCI-based PC-AT (based on i486 or later) with PS/2 or USB mouse, PS/2, AT or USB keyboard, IDE hard disk and CD-ROM on parallel ATA or SATA configured in legacy mode, and an (S)VGA video card and monitor. At least 24 MB of RAM is required. A VESA-compliant VGA card is recommended. There are generic 2D-accelerated drivers (HIDDs) for some ATI and nVidia cards.