AROS Exec

Development => Development (General) => Topic started by: deadwood on November 20, 2021, 08:15:33 AM

Title: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on November 20, 2021, 08:15:33 AM
Hello,

I will use this thread to share with you developments around my AROS-related projects. This will give you some insight in what you may and may not expect in coming months. First however I will give you a description of projects I maintain: AROS ABIv11, AROS ABIv0, AxRuntime.

AROS ABIv11
===========

ABIv11 is a code name I have given to my stable branch of AROS for 64-bit Intel and AMD processors. The code name is given to distinguish this version from the in-progress ABIv1 effort in main AROS repository. Stable branch in this context means that if a third party developer builds an application following these rules (https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/blob/master/README.md#backwards-compatibility) today, I commit that the application will be working tomorrow, next month and in a year from now. This is the main place where changes from me and other developers happen.

ABIv11 is hosted in this branch: https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS
ABIv11 forms a base for the other two projects.

AROS ABIv0
==========

The version of AROS currently in use for 32-bit Intel and AMD processors. If you are using Icaros, Aros One or another distribution, you are most likely running ABIv0 as base system. Most of 3rd party applications available on Aminet or AROS-Archives are compiled for ABIv0.

ABIv0 is hosted in this branch: https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/tree/alt-abiv0
ABIv0 "sits" on top of ABIv11. Most of the changes that are introduced to ABIv11, will eventually be flow to ABIv0 as well without additional effort from initial developers.


AxRuntime
=========

This is a set of Linux libraries that allows re-compilation of Amiga/AROS application into a native Linux application. More information is available here: https://axrt.org/index.php?tab=more

AxRuntime is hosted in this branch: https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/tree/alt-runtime
AxRuntime "sits" on top of ABIv11. Most of the changes that are introduced to ABIv11, will eventually be flow to AxRuntime as well without additional effort from initial developers.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on November 20, 2021, 08:17:23 AM
The approach I'm taking is having a small number of milestones achievable in a couple of months. Once these are done, next will be announced which will depend on my availability as well as interest at that point in time.

Here are current plans, as of 20211120.

1) Bring over selected changes from AROS repository (https://github.com/aros-development-team/AROS) to ABIv11 [DONE]
2) Bring over selected changes from Apollo repository (https://github.com/ApolloTeam-dev/AROS) to ABIv11 [DONE]
3) Release next version of ABIv11 [DONE]

https://build.axrt.org/download/builds/AROS-ABIv11/amiga-m68k-20211217-165106.tar.gz
https://build.axrt.org/download/builds/AROS-ABIv11/linux-x86_64-20211217-172953.tar.gz
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on November 20, 2021, 10:17:04 AM
Sounds good  :) thanks

I am grateful that you do this

there are three issues I experienced on 68k with some of the applications and games

There was always a problem that the applicatios (f.e. a viewer) requested and expected f.e. a PAL screen but got something RTG related and then of course not worked
some of the applications open the file requester and then the system freezes. But only some, not all.
there seem to be a jostick related bug. In some games it seems the fire button is contantly pressed (while it is not). This again not affects all games

there are certainly other issues too,. The Vampire team did a lot of bugfixing on 68k.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on November 20, 2021, 12:26:08 PM
Thank you very much Deadwood :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: miker1264 on November 20, 2021, 03:33:55 PM
@deadwood

It's good to have a plan moving forward.
We appreciate all your efforts and your willingness to help.

We will continue to do testing and provide you with accurate reports to help find problems and get them resolved quickly.

Thanks again for your insight and wisdom.  :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: aurabin on November 20, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
Thank you deadwood that you still believe in AROS, I still didn*t won the lottery but I keep donating!
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on November 20, 2021, 09:12:18 PM
https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/blob/master/README.md#backwards-compatibility

One question deadwood, but are the updated distros ABIv0 found in this link usable, what are the improvements, can they be used?
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on November 20, 2021, 10:02:13 PM
https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/blob/master/README.md#backwards-compatibility

One question deadwood, but are the updated distros ABIv0 found in this link usable, what are the improvements, can they be used?

Updates for ABiv0 are released from time to time. I will make separate threads here when this happens. The 20180415 is still the latest release.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on November 20, 2021, 10:17:35 PM
Ok Thanks
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: cdimauro on November 20, 2021, 10:38:41 PM
@deadwood: to me it's logical to have a common source "core" to every AROS "distro", and separate repos/branches for specific targets.


However isn't cherry-picking stuff to all such repos too much a burden to do & maintain?


Another question. It looks like that your is a fork from AROS "official repository". I think that you cherry-pick from there most of the stuff, right?


Having several repositories with some relationship between them looks a bit messy to me. Any idea about a common repo, to have a central place where to look at, and to also reduce the maintenance effort?
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on November 20, 2021, 11:50:12 PM
@deadwood: to me it's logical to have a common source "core" to every AROS "distro", and separate repos/branches for specific targets.


However isn't cherry-picking stuff to all such repos too much a burden to do & maintain?

This depends on the traffic in other repos. Today it is managable. If there is a traffic of "tens" of commits per day, it might not be.

Another question. It looks like that your is a fork from AROS "official repository". I think that you cherry-pick from there most of the stuff, right?

My github repo is directly re-created from the AROS SVN commits if that is what you are asking about.

Having several repositories with some relationship between them looks a bit messy to me. Any idea about a common repo, to have a central place where to look at, and to also reduce the maintenance effort?

Don't know. My repo suits my specific needs and projects, similar to Apollo repo suiting theirs I guess.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: cdimauro on November 21, 2021, 05:57:03 AM
Thanks for the clarification deadwood. One last question, since you mentioned: is the AROS SVN repo still used / the "master" repo, or is it moved to git (and development continues there)?
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on November 21, 2021, 07:42:37 AM
Thanks for the clarification deadwood. One last question, since you mentioned: is the AROS SVN repo still used / the "master" repo, or is it moved to git (and development continues there)?

Since middle of 2019 SVN repo is no longer used.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on November 21, 2021, 10:38:48 AM
@deadwood: to me it's logical to have a common source "core" to every AROS "distro", and separate repos/branches for specific targets.


However isn't cherry-picking stuff to all such repos too much a burden to do & maintain?


Another question. It looks like that your is a fork from AROS "official repository". I think that you cherry-pick from there most of the stuff, right?


Having several repositories with some relationship between them looks a bit messy to me. Any idea about a common repo, to have a central place where to look at, and to also reduce the maintenance effort?

I think you underestimate the problems the multi-platform one source concept has. For example in the last years it happened frequently that 58k stuff was broker after updates/changes. I also saw devs fixing other platforms after commits. You would need a big testing infrastructure and lots of external testers for that. Both does not exist. In my view it is better to have seperate branches with some coordination. At the moment the main branch is dead anyway so there is not a real problem there.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on December 14, 2021, 03:14:48 PM
Over last two weeks I've been working on re-design on ABIv11 C library. This is now pushed into repository and available.

You can find specification on new libraries here: https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/blob/master/compiler/crt/SPECIFICATION

Be sure to note, that while libraries sound new, they build on years of prior work by Staf, Kalamatee, Jason and many others.

This also means, that effective today, stdc.library, stdcio.library and posixc.library are no longer part of the build of ABIv11. If you also created and published an application for ABIv11 that uses any of the deprecated libraries, please get in contact with me and we will figure out a solution.

If you have local builds of ABIv11, please rebuild them (including cross-compilers) from scratch after 'git pull'.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: miker1264 on December 14, 2021, 05:18:34 PM
Some of the datatypes use posixc library.

I'll do a complete rebuild later today or tomorrow.

Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on December 14, 2021, 05:21:03 PM
Thank you deadwood :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on December 14, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
Some of the datatypes use posixc library.

I'll do a complete rebuild later today or tomorrow.

Thanks for the update.

These are good as tests beds. If you stop regression let me know via PM or separate thread.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on December 17, 2021, 07:56:03 PM
Hi,

The planned topics are DONE. In the original post you will find links to releases.

For January, I plan to get back to ABIv0 and make a new release based on newer ABIv11 code base. I will share more once I do detailed planning.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on December 17, 2021, 10:03:26 PM
ok deadwood thank you :D
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on December 21, 2021, 05:20:27 PM
But to fill out the source code of some programs that are on Archives in the new architecture, you must first fill out the source tree and then how can you proceed?
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on December 21, 2021, 07:57:39 PM
@salvo

I don't understand your question.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on December 21, 2021, 08:16:37 PM
Excuse me I wanted to know to bring something in Archives on Aros X64, before I have to fill out the tree of the source
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on December 22, 2021, 06:33:25 AM
If you are looking for source tree of ABiv11, then the link is available in the first post.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on December 22, 2021, 11:20:37 AM
ok thank you :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 03, 2022, 07:18:45 PM
Hello,

Some good news from me. I've been working over last 3 weeks to fully define ABIv11 call conventions which is now done. This also means there is first official release of ABIv11 for x86_64!

First, link to ABI documentation: https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/blob/master/arch/x86_64-all/ABI_SPECIFICATION

Next, link to releases (bottom of page): https://axrt.org/index.php?tab=download-aros

I also prepared first "3rd party" application - a build of MPlayer is now available on Archives: http://archives.aros-exec.org/index.php?function=showfile&file=video/play/mplayer-1.0-v5.x86_64-v11-aros.zip

The change to calling conventions means that if you already created and published an application for ABIv11 they will no longer work. Please get in contact with me and we will figure out a solution. If you have local builds of ABIv11, please rebuild them (including cross-compilers) from scratch after 'git pull'.

The last month's C library re-design and this change are the last major impacting changes that I had planned for ABIv11. This nicely closes off 2021 and opens 2022 for incremental improvements and growth.

If you want to try compiling some applications, downlod the "System" archive, the "Contrib" archive and copy the files from "Contrib" into "System". This will install GCC 6.5.0 for you. Contrib archive also contains 'make' and other basic unix utilities which should help you with compilation. Be sure to run AROS with at least 256MB RAM (-m 256). When uploading to AROS-Archives, please use the "x86_64-v11-aros" suffix of archive file names (see MPlayer example).
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on January 03, 2022, 07:35:53 PM
Hello Deadwood,

one question... is it possible to compile mplayer also for 68k?
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on January 03, 2022, 08:14:46 PM
thanks deadwood I will try to compile something, at some point I get there that is to create the build system after I get stuck, for example if I download the source code of yquake2 and put it in a directory of the build system example "local" how do I compile it?
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on January 03, 2022, 08:23:59 PM
ok maybe

ls /local/yquake2/
make local-yquake2

?
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 03, 2022, 08:31:34 PM
@salvo

If you are a beginner the easiest path is to educate yourself on principles by compiling for Windows or Linux. There are hundreds of resources on the internet, tutorials, you tube videos etc. Once you understand how building using make works on popular systems, the AROS specific parts can be quickly learned.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on January 03, 2022, 08:41:03 PM
ok deadwood :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on January 03, 2022, 09:52:06 PM
Hello,

Some good news from me. I've been working over last 3 weeks to fully define ABIv11 call conventions which is now done. This also means there is first official release of ABIv11 for x86_64!

First, link to ABI documentation: https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/blob/master/arch/x86_64-all/ABI_SPECIFICATION

Next, link to releases (bottom of page): https://axrt.org/index.php?tab=download-aros

I also prepared first "3rd party" application - a build of MPlayer is now available on Archives: http://archives.aros-exec.org/index.php?function=showfile&file=video/play/mplayer-1.0-v5.x86_64-v11-aros.zip

The change to calling conventions means that if you already created and published an application for ABIv11 they will no longer work. Please get in contact with me and we will figure out a solution. If you have local builds of ABIv11, please rebuild them (including cross-compilers) from scratch after 'git pull'.

The last month's C library re-design and this change are the last major impacting changes that I had planned for ABIv11. This nicely closes off 2021 and opens 2022 for incremental improvements and growth.

If you want to try compiling some applications, downlod the "System" archive, the "Contrib" archive and copy the files from "Contrib" into "System". This will install GCC 6.5.0 for you. Contrib archive also contains 'make' and other basic unix utilities which should help you with compilation. Be sure to run AROS with at least 256MB RAM (-m 256). When uploading to AROS-Archives, please use the "x86_64-v11-aros" suffix of archive file names (see MPlayer example).

This change will also affect ABIv0  ?
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: magorium on January 04, 2022, 12:32:53 AM
This change will also affect ABIv0  ?
No, these changes will not affect ABIv0.

Actually you quoted the answer yourself already  :)

This also means there is first official release of ABIv11 for x86_64!
e.g. it is named ABIv11 for a reason  ;)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on January 04, 2022, 12:55:00 AM

If you want to try compiling some applications, downlod the "System" archive, the "Contrib" archive and copy the files from "Contrib" into "System". This will install GCC 6.5.0 for you. Contrib archive also contains 'make' and other basic unix utilities which should help you with compilation. Be sure to run AROS with at least 256MB RAM (-m 256). When uploading to AROS-Archives, please use the "x86_64-v11-aros" suffix of archive file names (see MPlayer example).

ok understand I tried to compile something but I always receive mistakes, I stop here :-X
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: miker1264 on January 04, 2022, 01:30:21 AM

If you want to try compiling some applications, downlod the "System" archive, the "Contrib" archive and copy the files from "Contrib" into "System". This will install GCC 6.5.0 for you. Contrib archive also contains 'make' and other basic unix utilities which should help you with compilation. Be sure to run AROS with at least 256MB RAM (-m 256). When uploading to AROS-Archives, please use the "x86_64-v11-aros" suffix of archive file names (see MPlayer example).

ok understand I tried to compile something but I always receive mistakes, I stop here :-X

Fixing the errors is the most fun.  ;)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 04, 2022, 07:10:27 AM
This change will also affect ABIv0  ?
No, these changes will not affect ABIv0.

Correct
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on January 04, 2022, 09:36:00 AM
Thanks deadwood, specifically I was referring to the fact the new feautures will be ported to ABIv0 as well.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 04, 2022, 09:57:29 AM
Thanks deadwood, specifically I was referring to the fact the new feautures will be ported to ABIv0 as well.

Ok, now I understand. The calling convention will not - it is specific to x86_64. The reworked C libraries will become available in ABIv0 at some point.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 06, 2022, 01:11:02 PM
Hi,

As indicated earlier, I made plans for next milestones - you can find them below. They are listed in an order I plan working on them.

1) Release new version of AxRuntime based on recently releases ABIv11
2) Migrate ABIv0 from GCC 4.2.4 to GCC 6.3.0. This will provide better tooling for 3rd party developers.
3) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to common codebase from around 2019-03-01 (Today we are on 2018-04-15)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on January 06, 2022, 01:54:07 PM
Hello Deadwood

question again (sorry do not want to nerve)

have you looked at the "software not correctly closes"? That was what I reported that f.e. demos but also applications not correctly close and you only get a empty screen and you have to reboot
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on January 06, 2022, 01:57:30 PM
Hi,

As indicated earlier, I made plans for next milestones - you can find them below. They are listed in an order I plan working on them.

1) Release new version of AxRuntime based on recently releases ABIv11
2) Migrate ABIv0 from GCC 4.2.4 to GCC 6.3.0. This will provide better tooling for 3rd party developers.
3) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to common codebase from around 2019-03-01 (Today we are on 2018-04-15)

Thank you deadwood :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 06, 2022, 03:40:13 PM
Hello Deadwood

question again (sorry do not want to nerve)

have you looked at the "software not correctly closes"? That was what I reported that f.e. demos but also applications not correctly close and you only get a empty screen and you have to reboot

It's on my list, but I haven't looked into it yet. Its probably more effective if you try interesting someone from Apollo team in this issue as well - they are more engaged with m68k than I am.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: magorium on January 06, 2022, 10:26:29 PM
@deadw00d
It is of futile importance but on your axrt downloadpage (https://axrt.org/index.php?tab=download-aros) it is spelled desription (but should read description)

... and while i'm at it  :)

@salvo:
In your sig: It is spelled Maintainer and not Manteiner
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on January 07, 2022, 01:11:50 AM
ok magorium ;D
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: miker1264 on January 07, 2022, 01:18:20 AM
@deadw00d
It is of futile importance but on your axrt downloadpage (https://axrt.org/index.php?tab=download-aros) it is spelled desription (but should read description)

... and while i'm at it  :)

@salvo:
In your sig: It is spelled Maintainer and not Manteiner

Just minor infringements. Probably due to faulty keyboard layout.  ;)

salvo though is a different matter. He just can't spell right.

Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on January 07, 2022, 01:23:45 AM
I thought it was written correctly I never learned English ;D
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 07, 2022, 08:02:34 AM
@deadw00d
It is of futile importance but on your axrt downloadpage (https://axrt.org/index.php?tab=download-aros) it is spelled desription (but should read description)

Fixed, thank :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: muibase on January 20, 2022, 06:51:19 AM
Next, link to releases (bottom of page): https://axrt.org/index.php?tab=download-aros

I have been trying to compile MUIbase for x86_64-v11 and (after some changes [mostly ULONG -> IPTR]) everything compiles without serious warnings, but the resulting binary does not start.

I am using the https://www.axrt.org/download/aros/v11/AROS-20211231-1-linux-x86_64-system.tar.bz2 (https://www.axrt.org/download/aros/v11/AROS-20211231-1-linux-x86_64-system.tar.bz2) release, and built the corresponding toolchain using the instructions from https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/blob/master/INSTALL.md (https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/blob/master/INSTALL.md).

I tracked it down to global variables that somehow get missing in the binary.  Here is an example.

The following compiles and runs as expected:
Code: [Select]
#include <stdio.h>
int main(void)
{
    printf("Hello world\n");
    return 0;
}


But when adding a global variable like this:
Code: [Select]
#include <stdio.h>

// I love global variables, in particular when they are called 'i' ;-)
int i;

int main(void)
{
    printf("Hello world\n");
    i = 0;
    return 0;
}

The binary doesn't start.  The output in the CLI window is: "hello: file is not executable" and the Linux terminal where I booted AROS from prints "[ELF Loader] COMMON symbol 'i'".

Thus, somehow the linker removed the global symbol 'i'.  Any idea what is wrong?

Here is the command I used to compile (I made symbolic links from /usr/local to the directories where I unpacked and compiled v11):
/usr/local/aros-sdk/toolchain-core-x86_64/x86_64-aros-gcc --sysroot /usr/local/aros-sdk/SDK-core-x86_64 -o hello hello.c
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 20, 2022, 07:14:20 AM
I think the solution is either to initialize the global variable to 0 OR to add -fno-common switch to the compilers comand line.

I looked up the history and it seems this change has been made to make older gcc versions (like 6.5.0) behave the same as the gcc 10 and up.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: muibase on January 20, 2022, 07:56:14 AM
Thanks, that worked!  MUIbase now also runs on x86-64-v11.

Is there a way on AROS to detect whether AROS is compiled for i386 or x86-64?  It yes, it would allow to pre-select the right binary in the Installer script.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 20, 2022, 08:50:52 AM
Glad it worked :)

About your question, I see two ways:

1) aros.library (http://www.aros.org/documentation/developers/autodocs/aros.php) ArosInquireA with AI_ArosArchitecture tag. You get get a pointer to string like "linux-x86_64" or "pc-x86_64". You can grab CPU archictecture from there.
2) There is ABI environment variable you can read. Value of 0 most likely means it is i386 (however there was once ABIv0 for arm as well). Version of 11 means most likely x86_64 (though my builds of amiga-m68k also have version 11).
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: muibase on January 20, 2022, 09:12:29 AM
Env:ABI sounds good to me since that is easily accessible from within an Installer script.  It is okay if it isn't right all the time since it will only be used for pre-selecting the binary to install and the user can still change it.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: muibase on January 20, 2022, 09:17:29 AM
Here is another question.  How do I correctly implement a function that takes variable number of arguments on AROS?

Here is a sample program:
Code: [Select]
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdarg.h>
#include <libraries/mui.h>
#include <proto/muimaster.h>
#include <proto/intuition.h>
#include <proto/exec.h>

#define VARARGS68K __stackparm

struct Library *MUIMasterBase = NULL;

static void VARARGS68K ask(Object *app, const char *fmt, ...)
{
    va_list va;

    va_start(va, fmt);
    MUI_Request(app, NULL, 0, "Requester", "*Ok", fmt,
            (APTR)va->overflow_arg_area);
    va_end(va);
}

int main(void)
{
    MUIMasterBase = OpenLibrary((STRPTR)MUIMASTER_NAME, 0);
    if (MUIMasterBase == NULL) {
        printf("No MUI\n");
        return 10;
    }

    Object *app = ApplicationObject, End;

    ask(app, "6 * 7 = %d", 42);

    MUI_DisposeObject(app);

    CloseLibrary(MUIMasterBase);

    return 0;
}

When running this on x86-64-v11 I get the funny result: "6 * 7 = 22160"  :(
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on January 20, 2022, 09:48:25 AM
@muibase

Moved to another thread:
https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=852.0
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on January 20, 2022, 09:34:59 PM
Thanks, that worked!  MUIbase now also runs on x86-64-v11.

Is there a way on AROS to detect whether AROS is compiled for i386 or x86-64?  It yes, it would allow to pre-select the right binary in the Installer script.

Thank you steffen
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on February 12, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
Hi,

It looks like we are having Free Pascal compiler working on ABIv11 as well as several useful applications ported. :) See this link:

https://blog.alb42.de/2022/02/07/aros64-again-this-time-abi-11/
https://blog.alb42.de/2022/02/07/the-100-useless-aros-distribution-0-3/

Thanks go to ALB42.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on February 12, 2022, 06:09:32 PM
yes good :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on February 12, 2022, 06:57:17 PM
Hi,

It looks like we are having Free Pascal compiler working on ABIv11 as well as several useful applications ported. :) See this link:

https://blog.alb42.de/2022/02/07/aros64-again-this-time-abi-11/
https://blog.alb42.de/2022/02/07/the-100-useless-aros-distribution-0-3/

Thanks go to ALB42.

A few days ago I tried to start it from VM but it doesn't seem to work, I don't like Host systems so I didn't try other modes.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: miker1264 on February 12, 2022, 07:51:45 PM
Hi,

It looks like we are having Free Pascal compiler working on ABIv11 as well as several useful applications ported. :) See this link:

https://blog.alb42.de/2022/02/07/aros64-again-this-time-abi-11/
https://blog.alb42.de/2022/02/07/the-100-useless-aros-distribution-0-3/

Thanks go to ALB42.

A few days ago I tried to start it from VM but it doesn't seem to work, I don't like Host systems so I didn't try other modes.

AROS Hosted is great. One of the benefits is using the Host file managers to copy or delete data while AROS is running. It speeds up the process.



Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on February 12, 2022, 11:16:35 PM
Yes I know miker but as said I'm not really excited about a Host system.

Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on February 12, 2022, 11:26:29 PM
@deadwood

Discussing with ALB42 on AmiTube we have found that on AROS ABIv1, then AROS 68k and AROS ABIv11 there is a problem on the texts obtained after a search with AmiTube, in practice the texts are corrupted, to fix them you have to enlarge the GUI.

I specify that on AROS x86 ABIv0 everything works perfectly and there is no corruption on the text!

I attach a link to the discussion where ALB42 has attached a video that shows the artifacts on the text, while I attach a video on AROS One x86 where there is no corruption, the text is perfect.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=109252&page=2

Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on February 13, 2022, 07:51:42 AM
Thanks, bug report created: https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/issues/61
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on March 18, 2022, 07:04:12 PM
Hi,

As indicated earlier, I made plans for next milestones - you can find them below. They are listed in an order I plan working on them.

1) Release new version of AxRuntime based on recently releases ABIv11
2) Migrate ABIv0 from GCC 4.2.4 to GCC 6.3.0. This will provide better tooling for 3rd party developers.
3) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to common codebase from around 2019-03-01 (Today we are on 2018-04-15)

Some time has passed since I decided on these milestones and I figured out an update is in order.

Over last weeks I've been focused on working on point 1) and doing some extended testing with @magorium and @muibase. I'm pleased to report that all experiments that I had planned in are now finished with success and I'm moving to phase of clean up and preparation for release. If all goes well the new release of AxRuntime should be available by end of this month. This means starting from April I will turn my focus on ABIv0 and having it catch up with features of mainline development.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on March 18, 2022, 07:26:06 PM
Ok thanks deadwood, I will wait for April to update and distribute the new version of AROS One x86
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on March 18, 2022, 07:43:08 PM
ok deadwood thank you :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on March 31, 2022, 06:12:40 PM
@deadwood

Why on Wanderer is it not possible to rename a volume?

To change a volume name you have to do it from the Shell with the command relabel or from HDToolbox!
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on April 01, 2022, 07:58:24 AM
I don't know, probably a missing feature.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on April 01, 2022, 09:56:23 AM
Yes it is a problem of Wander, but also of Scalos, as you can see from the screenshot the two systems give a different error.
No problem for Magellan, but this is normal since Magellan completely replaces "the Workbench".
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on April 05, 2022, 11:18:36 AM
Hi,

As indicated earlier, I made plans for next milestones - you can find them below. They are listed in an order I plan working on them.

1) Release new version of AxRuntime based on recently releases ABIv11 - DONE
2) Migrate ABIv0 from GCC 4.2.4 to GCC 6.3.0. This will provide better tooling for 3rd party developers.
3) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to common codebase from around 2019-03-01 (Today we are on 2018-04-15)

Hi,

Today a new release of AxRuntime has been made. With this, I will take a few days off and then move to ABIv0 topics, starting with upgrade of GCC.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on April 05, 2022, 12:08:34 PM
Thank you for your work !
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on April 05, 2022, 01:47:53 PM
thank you deadwood :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on May 30, 2022, 12:09:39 PM
Hi,

As indicated earlier, I made plans for next milestones - you can find them below. They are listed in an order I plan working on them.

1) Release new version of AxRuntime based on recently releases ABIv11 - DONE
2) Migrate ABIv0 from GCC 4.2.4 to GCC 6.3.0. This will provide better tooling for 3rd party developers. - DONE
3) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to common codebase from around 2019-03-01 (Today we are on 2018-04-15)

Hi All,

Migration is now done and release made. See this thread: https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=909.msg10802#msg10802
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on May 30, 2022, 12:20:04 PM
Hi,

Being 2/3 done on my January list, I wanted to give you a bit more info on two concrete things I'm planning and a bit longer-term horizon.

Concrete planned items:
1) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to common codebase from around 2019-03-01 (Today we are on 2018-04-23)
2) Port Scalos to AxRuntime so that it can become Linux desktop manager

On a longer horizon, there will be a lot of work related to ABIv0 and AxRuntime. I want to update ABIv0 to be based on latest ABIv11 source code. This will be an enabler to having a version of AxRuntime that is capable of running ABIv0 32-bit programs on top of Linux.

Once all these things are in place, we will have a Linux-native desktop (Scalos) and ability to run AROS ABIv0 programs (32-bit), AROS ABIv11 programs (64-bit) and AxRuntime-recompiled programs (64-bit). This way existing Distros could be re-created using Linux as a base without loosing existing functionality for users, enabling a gradual migration from 32-bit to 64-bit.

It's a lot of work. If you are interested in helping out in any of these topics or just writing code for AROS, please let me know!
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on May 30, 2022, 01:10:04 PM
yes Deadwood I understand as soon as it will be released I will try Axruntime with the new scalos desktop is interesting as evolution, I don't know if I will be able to create a distribution but I will try :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on May 30, 2022, 01:29:13 PM
Hi,

2) Port Scalos to AxRuntime so that it can become Linux desktop manager


If there have been no new updates on Scalos, i would say that compared to Wandere at less speed and less compatibility, if on the other hand there have been updates that improve Scalos, then there will also be AROS One Scalos x86 version.

Thank you epr the much work you do for the community
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on May 30, 2022, 01:31:45 PM
I will worry about publishing TinyArosX ;), In the past I used Pascal Papara aeros but then it became obsolete, so your new project does not scare me even if I have always preferred the native version, good work Deadwood and thanks for everything, I use every day as a main system for years :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 02:04:16 PM
Hi,

Being 2/3 done on my January list, I wanted to give you a bit more info on two concrete things I'm planning and a bit longer-term horizon.

Concrete planned items:
1) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to common codebase from around 2019-03-01 (Today we are on 2018-04-23)
2) Port Scalos to AxRuntime so that it can become Linux desktop manager

On a longer horizon, there will be a lot of work related to ABIv0 and AxRuntime. I want to update ABIv0 to be based on latest ABIv11 source code. This will be an enabler to having a version of AxRuntime that is capable of running ABIv0 32-bit programs on top of Linux.

Once all these things are in place, we will have a Linux-native desktop (Scalos) and ability to run AROS ABIv0 programs (32-bit), AROS ABIv11 programs (64-bit) and AxRuntime-recompiled programs (64-bit). This way existing Distros could be re-created using Linux as a base without loosing existing functionality for users, enabling a gradual migration from 32-bit to 64-bit.

It's a lot of work. If you are interested in helping out in any of these topics or just writing code for AROS, please let me know!

Thank you very much. I think there a good opportunity to create something new and interesting based on Linux, AxRuntime and Scalos as desktop. I am already looking forward to it. BTW cool that also ABI0 aros apps will run on it. So we finally really will be able to mix Linux and any aros app or component on one platform. That (together with Scalos) will certainly make some cool things possible...
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 02:07:25 PM
Hi,

2) Port Scalos to AxRuntime so that it can become Linux desktop manager


If there have been no new updates on Scalos, i would say that compared to Wandere at less speed and less compatibility, if on the other hand there have been updates that improve Scalos, then there will also be AROS One Scalos x86 version.

Thank you epr the much work you do for the community

I already test Scalos on WinHosted and it looks pretty fast. I do not know what you mean. BTW there are a lot of preferences that influence both behavior and speed. And "less compatibility" than Wanderer? I do not understand.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on May 30, 2022, 02:17:50 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/jkbyqfT/tinyx.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YBPcJQ3)


Work in progress.......
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 02:22:10 PM
@salvo

you are ahead of the time  ;)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on May 30, 2022, 02:24:41 PM
 :D

long live Aros
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on May 30, 2022, 02:54:31 PM
I already test Scalos on WinHosted and it looks pretty fast. I do not know what you mean. BTW there are a lot of preferences that influence both behavior and speed. And "less compatibility" than Wanderer? I do not understand.

To understand you have to make comparisons and test the software one by one, as soon as possible I will try again to test Scalos with the new deadwood updates, all the anomalies, incomatibilities software will be listed.

The slowness is about the delay of Icons shown in windows, a problem you also experience on Scalos 68k.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on May 30, 2022, 03:47:30 PM
Thank you all for your support and encouragement.

To address the question of Scalos. This is not based on my own experience but mostly on comments from Olaf. As far as I understand Scalos is more feature-rich than Wanderer and usability is key for this effort. I can fix simple bugs, but adding new functionality is time consuming. That is not to say that Wanderer will not be ported. It's rather that I think it makes sense to port Scalos as more usable first and focus on adding missing pieces before moving forward.

If you however disagree and think that Wanderer can be more usable, I'd like to know your arguments, examples, comparisons (please start a separate thread in such case) to arrive at best possible decision.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on May 30, 2022, 03:53:25 PM
BTW cool that also ABI0 aros apps will run on it. So we finally really will be able to mix Linux and any aros app or component on one platform.

One thing that is also interesting is that on ABIv0 you have JanusUAE, which makes m68k Intuition windows appear as AROS Intuition windows. On the other hand, AxRuntime makes AROS Intutiion windows appear as native X windows. I wonder if this will work to eventually "forward" m68k application to work "as native" Linux applications.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 04:00:33 PM
Thank you all for your support and encouragement.

To address the question of Scalos. This is not based on my own experience but mostly on comments from Olaf. As far as I understand Scalos is more feature-rich than Wanderer and usability is key for this effort. I can fix simple bugs, but adding new functionality is time consuming. That is not to say that Wanderer will not be ported. It's rather that I think it makes sense to port Scalos as more usable first and focus on adding missing pieces before moving forward.

If you however disagree and think that Wanderer can be more usable, I'd like to know your arguments, examples, comparisons (please start a separate thread in such case) to arrive at best possible decision.

Sorry to comment that... with all respect Amigasystem is sometimes "special" with his attitudes. He also talked against Magellan despite Magellan far more powerfull. Or against on Aros 68k mixing Aros and Amiga software. I have no problem there with different attitudes but it starts to be silly. For me personal a limited desktop system like Wanderer is no option. I want to attract people, people from current NG camp (AmigaOS or MorphOS) or even from outside. If only Wanderer is available I will wait for Scalos to do a distribution. Unfortunately for him I use Scalos currently on both X86 and 68k so if he starts to promote Wanderer I will talk against that. The funny thing for a purist like Amigasystem (Aros purist) the idea to mix different platforms is not interesting anyway. Desktop defines user experience. I think one of the main reason for Aros being a long time not taken seriously was the limited desktop (Wanderer).

Features from Scalos page:
100% Workbench replacement - All functions work like the original Workbench ones
Undo and Redo for most window and icon operation
64bit arithmetic - Correctly recognises harddisks over 4GB
Fully multitasking - Every window has its own task. While loading icons, any window function (e.g. Drag&Drop) is available
Icon imagetypes - All types are supported such as backfill or complement. Configurable surrounding iconborder
Icon datatype system - NewIcon datatype included. Icon support also visually highlights files which are soft-links in the file system.
Icon dragging is more stable - And far less flickery on graphics cards. Whilst dragging, icons are displayed with text and they become transparent over anything where they can be dropped! MUI-alike transparency on low colour screens. Real transparency if running at 15-bit or greater.
Cybergraphics and Picasso96 24bit color support
Window patterns - Unlimited and easily configurable via tooltypes
Optimised backgroundpatterns routine - Patterns can be tiled, centred or even scaled to fit into the windows. With the use of render.library, you get full control over the dithering and pen usage of your patterns
Live updating window scrolling - Supports middle mouse button panning too!
Drawer windows can be iconified
Menu preferences - You can enjoy fully configurable menus (includes ToolsDaemon and Parm import), including support for context-sensitive Popup menus
Application Interface (API) - Anything is possible from outside the program itself
Custom preference programs - For both palette and patterns. A pen-locker is not required any more
Nearly all Workbench preferences are used
Installation is very easy
Supports PNG icons with alpha channel and real transparency
Displays OS3.5 GlowIcons even on OS3.1 machines
Scalable icons
Thumbnail preview icons for images - Thumbnails can be permanently saved in icons
Completely confgurable, filetype-specific user-definable popup menus and tooltips
Plugin system to exchange or add features - It enhances the Workbench and makes it more configurable
Filetype plugins to display filetype-specific information. - Currently, EXIF information viewer for JPEG images is included.
Iconborders - Nice looking, Icontext variations (normal, shadowed, outlined)
Screentitle text - Shows what you want, how you want
Plugin included for 100% support of OS3.9 Workbench features
Plugin included for AREXX API compatible to OS3.9 Workbench
Online update with updater.module
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 04:05:30 PM
BTW cool that also ABI0 aros apps will run on it. So we finally really will be able to mix Linux and any aros app or component on one platform.

One thing that is also interesting is that on ABIv0 you have JanusUAE, which makes m68k Intuition windows appear as AROS Intuition windows. On the other hand, AxRuntime makes AROS Intutiion windows appear as native X windows. I wonder if this will work to eventually "forward" m68k application to work "as native" Linux applications.

sounds cool  :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 04:17:29 PM
Thank you all for your support and encouragement.

To address the question of Scalos. This is not based on my own experience but mostly on comments from Olaf. As far as I understand Scalos is more feature-rich than Wanderer and usability is key for this effort. I can fix simple bugs, but adding new functionality is time consuming. That is not to say that Wanderer will not be ported. It's rather that I think it makes sense to port Scalos as more usable first and focus on adding missing pieces before moving forward.

If you however disagree and think that Wanderer can be more usable, I'd like to know your arguments, examples, comparisons (please start a separate thread in such case) to arrive at best possible decision.

There is no need to add "new features". Scalos includes already tons of preferences and new features compared to 3.1 and Wanderer is functionality wise more or less on the same level. There is nothing wrong to me to have different tastes and prefer a simple and limited 3.1 level desktop but I do not think that this would attract users to it. If some bugs are identified and fixed it would be perfect. There is no need to create a new scalos version with new added features.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on May 30, 2022, 05:03:44 PM
OlafS3 sorry I never speak as a Fan or a Fan, I try to be as realistic as possible.

That Magelan or Scalos have a few more features does not mean they work better.

I usually look at functionality and love maximum compatibility on a system that needs to be direct and not leaning on third-party applications.

Try to configure Scalos and then compare it with a Wandere based AROS, of course the comparison should not be done with a night but with well configured AROs systems like IcarOS or my AROS One which you have probably never tried ! Try it and then maybe find out also with Wanderer you can do what you do with Magelan or Scalos but at a faster speed, in addition to using a real Amiga clone
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 05:07:49 PM
OlafS3 sorry I never speak as a Fan or a Fan, I try to be as realistic as possible.

That Magelan or Scalos have a few more features does not mean they work better.

I usually look at functionality and love maximum compatibility on a system that needs to be direct and not leaning on third-party applications.

Try to configure Scalos and then compare it with a Wandere based AROS, of course the comparison should not be done with a night but with well configured AROs systems like IcarOS or my AROS One which you have probably never tried ! Try it and then maybe find out also with Wanderer you can do what you do with Magelan or Scalos but at a faster speed, in addition to using a real Amiga clone

Ha Ha

Icaros Desktop IS Magellan for a long time. Do your job

from icaros desktop site:
I've made some little changes to Magellan that should make us Icaros users happier. First of all, I found on DOpus 5 website a link to a newer version (a nightly build of v5.92 from 2016), which should be more polished and advanced than the one (v5.91) currently included in Icaros Desktop. I'm testing it right now without pain, so it should be good for 'production'. This was, indeed, a good time for two little changes I was thinking about for a while.

I do not care that you prefer your choice, you can do what you like to but do not try to make the other options look bad to promote your favorite. Because then I will heavily hold against it. It is of course Deadwoods decision what he supports. If it is Wanderer based on your descriptions then be it. Then I have the advantage to have more time to spend on other things  ;). I will not do anything based on Wanderer. It makes no sense to me. Again I currently test Scalos on Win Hosted X86. Icons are shown very fast. And even if it would be a little slower compared to wanderer, it includes tons of options to configure it how f.e. icons are shown. Wanderer has nothing to offer in comparation.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: cdimauro on May 30, 2022, 05:26:03 PM
Then why don't you make a side-by-side comparison of Wanderer and Scalos, to show the pros and cons / issues of each one?


Engineers like DATA. FACTs. In order to make an evaluation.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on May 30, 2022, 05:26:19 PM
Ha Ha

Icaros Desktop IS Magellan for a long time. Do your job

There is no need to respond like this. On this path everybody looses.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: cdimauro on May 30, 2022, 05:29:02 PM
Hi,

Being 2/3 done on my January list, I wanted to give you a bit more info on two concrete things I'm planning and a bit longer-term horizon.

Concrete planned items:
1) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to common codebase from around 2019-03-01 (Today we are on 2018-04-23)
2) Port Scalos to AxRuntime so that it can become Linux desktop manager

On a longer horizon, there will be a lot of work related to ABIv0 and AxRuntime. I want to update ABIv0 to be based on latest ABIv11 source code. This will be an enabler to having a version of AxRuntime that is capable of running ABIv0 32-bit programs on top of Linux.

Once all these things are in place, we will have a Linux-native desktop (Scalos) and ability to run AROS ABIv0 programs (32-bit), AROS ABIv11 programs (64-bit) and AxRuntime-recompiled programs (64-bit). This way existing Distros could be re-created using Linux as a base without loosing existing functionality for users, enabling a gradual migration from 32-bit to 64-bit.

It's a lot of work. If you are interested in helping out in any of these topics or just writing code for AROS, please let me know!
Yes, it's a lot of work because your goals are ambitious. But it doesn't look incredibly hard.


Let's see if, at the end of this path, we can finally see AROS 64-bit in a good shape, too.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 05:29:25 PM
Ha Ha

Icaros Desktop IS Magellan for a long time. Do your job

There is no need to respond like this. On this path everybody looses.

Sorry Deadwood

I was only a little nerved because he himself not uses Icaros Desktop obviously but try to convince me that I am wrong.

Decide what you think. I have written my view and let it there...
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on May 30, 2022, 05:32:20 PM
@All

My request is about information and facts comparing both desktops. The goal, for me personally, is to be able to run this desktop as a replacement of what i'm currently using under Linux Mint. So the comparison bar for me is not "better than Workbench", but "slightly worse than Caja" (Linux Mint file browser). I know what Wanderer can do from "insides", but probably I'm missing information on what it can be configured for. On the other hand I have no experience with Scalos and will have to evaluate it from grounds up - so comments on what I should look for are also welcomed.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: cdimauro on May 30, 2022, 05:33:00 PM
BTW cool that also ABI0 aros apps will run on it. So we finally really will be able to mix Linux and any aros app or component on one platform. That (together with Scalos) will certainly make some cool things possible...
You have to consider that each AROS application running on / launched from AxRuntime has a completely separated process where it's running.
So, interaction with other AROS applications isn't possible: each one is completely independent from the other ones.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 05:36:52 PM
@All

My request is about information and facts comparing both desktops. The goal, for me personally, is to be able to run this desktop as a replacement of what i'm currently using under Linux Mint. So the comparison bar for me is not "better than Workbench", but "slightly worse than Caja" (Linux Mint file browser). I know what Wanderer can do from "insides", but probably I'm missing information on what it can be configured for. On the other hand I have no experience with Scalos and will have to evaluate it from grounds up - so comments on what I should look for are also welcomed.

I am currently working on a Win Hosted ABI0 distribution with Scalos. It is WIP of course but it is working and perhaps good enough to play around with it. Scalos has preferences with lots of options. I could upload it if you are interested
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on May 30, 2022, 05:38:35 PM
BTW cool that also ABI0 aros apps will run on it. So we finally really will be able to mix Linux and any aros app or component on one platform. That (together with Scalos) will certainly make some cool things possible...
You have to consider that each AROS application running on / launched from AxRuntime has a completely separated process where it's running.
So, interaction with other AROS applications isn't possible: each one is completely independent from the other ones.

from security point of view that is nice but at least some interaction should be possible like using Arexx ports or clipboard
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on May 30, 2022, 05:40:19 PM
BTW cool that also ABI0 aros apps will run on it. So we finally really will be able to mix Linux and any aros app or component on one platform. That (together with Scalos) will certainly make some cool things possible...
You have to consider that each AROS application running on / launched from AxRuntime has a completely separated process where it's running.
So, interaction with other AROS applications isn't possible: each one is completely independent from the other ones.

from security point of view that is nice but at least some interaction should be possible like using Arexx ports or clipboard

Clipboard will be shared, like it is shared between Linux applications. Arexx might be more tricky an need some hacks, but I think I will try to add it - after all Arexx is one of the "Amiga" things.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on May 30, 2022, 05:41:20 PM
@All

My request is about information and facts comparing both desktops. The goal, for me personally, is to be able to run this desktop as a replacement of what i'm currently using under Linux Mint. So the comparison bar for me is not "better than Workbench", but "slightly worse than Caja" (Linux Mint file browser). I know what Wanderer can do from "insides", but probably I'm missing information on what it can be configured for. On the other hand I have no experience with Scalos and will have to evaluate it from grounds up - so comments on what I should look for are also welcomed.

I am currently working on a Win Hosted ABI0 distribution with Scalos. It is WIP of course but it is working and perhaps good enough to play around with it. Scalos has preferences with lots of options. I could upload it if you are interested

Yes. Please share it when you have it working. There is no rush though - working on point 1) from my list will take 1-2 months.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on May 30, 2022, 06:53:45 PM
@OlafS3

I know Icaros very well, I have used Icaros for many years and dialogued many times with my friend Paolone also on Italian forums.

As said I will redo the tests and list all the anomalies of Scalos both on x86 and 68k, I will also make comparison videos to prove what I say, which I always do scrupulously.

Regarding Dopus5 I know all the versions even the Windows ones and I have used all of them even on OS3 and Windows

Finally, it is one thing to talk about software and another thing to judge people; I have never judged people, which you do, and not the first time.
 
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: cdimauro on May 30, 2022, 07:14:16 PM
Let's see when the primadonnas decided to open a proper thread and continue there their quarrels...
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on May 30, 2022, 07:24:59 PM
cdimauro, we are not prima donnas, i simply expressed my thoughts, for me the discussion ends here there will be no more of my interventions on these things
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on May 30, 2022, 08:02:15 PM
Yes. Please share it when you have it working. There is no rush though - working on point 1) from my list will take 1-2 months.

Thank you Deadwood
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on May 30, 2022, 08:32:39 PM
As said I will redo the tests and list all the anomalies of Scalos both on x86 and 68k, I will also make comparison videos to prove what I say, which I always do scrupulously.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: Glinx on May 30, 2022, 08:37:17 PM
Excellent and thank you!
Well done deadw00d :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on June 01, 2022, 01:24:30 PM
Deadwood I hope (but I'm not the only one) in a future not too far in an Odyssey update, however at the moment it is still usable thanks to your work, some sites are not reachable but it takes patience :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: salvo on June 01, 2022, 02:42:44 PM
Deadwood does everything possible I know it's a dream possible update
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on July 01, 2022, 03:27:26 PM
With ABIv0 release being done and even squezing some code porting/synchronization and fixes, time has come to refresh the plan:

1) Port Scalos to AxRuntime so that it can become Linux desktop manager

There are no further concrete actions planned at this time. This is due to uncertaity of above-mentioned work. Once I have a better visibility on progress, I will be able to plan further.

The long term horizon remains unchanged:

"On a longer horizon, there will be a lot of work related to ABIv0 and AxRuntime. I want to update ABIv0 to be based on latest ABIv11 source code. This will be an enabler to having a version of AxRuntime that is capable of running ABIv0 32-bit programs on top of Linux.

Once all these things are in place, we will have a Linux-native desktop (Scalos) and ability to run AROS ABIv0 programs (32-bit), AROS ABIv11 programs (64-bit) and AxRuntime-recompiled programs (64-bit). This way existing Distros could be re-created using Linux as a base without loosing existing functionality for users, enabling a gradual migration from 32-bit to 64-bit."
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: OlafS3 on July 01, 2022, 03:34:55 PM
Sounds great Deadwood  :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: Glinx on July 01, 2022, 04:12:02 PM
Sounds excellent :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: nsklaus on July 09, 2022, 09:04:18 PM
the plan:
1) Port Scalos to AxRuntime so that it can become Linux desktop manager
...
we will have a Linux-native desktop (Scalos)

scalos as a native linux desktop ?! that sounds _very_ interesting !
would there be a part of the plan to have linux apps to export their menus to scalos menu bar too ?
kde, xfce and gnome are now able to have apps exporting their menus to a global menu bar.
it would be wonderful if that could be tweaked to work with scalos menu bar too.
i wish you best of luck with this plan, i'll be definitively looking forward to it.

a request:
for future endeavors can i suggest dopus5 too ? it's opensourced now..
dopus5 is the crown jewel of desktops (all systems confunded, even to this day)
and its listers are the best file manager experience i have ever seen on any system.
that being said, even though my all times favourite is dopus5,
having scalos on linux would be de-facto my desktop of choice.
do it, do it naow, we need it for yesterday.


Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on July 09, 2022, 09:24:49 PM
would there be a part of the plan to have linux apps to export their menus to scalos menu bar too ?
kde, xfce and gnome are now able to have apps exporting their menus to a global menu bar.
it would be wonderful if that could be tweaked to work with scalos menu bar too.

If that is possible for linux-native desktops, than it will also be possible for Scalos, if first I succede with making it a native linux desktop.


do it, do it naow, we need it for yesterday.

True
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: nsklaus on July 10, 2022, 03:24:55 PM
this might be seen as a bit of a negative post but, here i share anyway
.. it is constructive criticism:

i hope you can keep scalos to be looking like .. scalos.
because quite frankly the way aros desktop turned up to be is an absolute horror.
the base look for aros was amigaos 3.1. stock default amigaos 3.1.
the user have to customise himself on his own.
this was nice and good.

aros made such a mess of UI elements, it broke consistency, you have gadgets of inconsistent  height and look. you have the abominable, appaling , space wasting, gorilla icons.
you have disgusting window decoration themes. aros desktop look is _terrible_ i cannot underline this enough. it's as ugly as amigaos was beautiful.
that is to say: i consider amiga very good looking, and aros, very, very, ugly.

i attach a picture of a more sane looking scalos, that try to look normal.
it tries, but there is still many problems.
i marked them on the screenshot as an example.
if scalos is made to look like aros default destop, i wouldn't touch it with even a 10foot pole ;)

Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: Glinx on July 10, 2022, 05:31:03 PM
I agree with you on the gorilla icons, hate them!
Is it time to change the default to those used in icaros?

As for the window's.. I like the quirky retro look :)

My 2c :)
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: nsklaus on July 10, 2022, 05:45:42 PM
thanks for sharing.
to me even icaros looks bad.
i wouldn't be satisfied until aros could be made to look 1:1 with stock default amigaos 3.1.
there could be predefined themes, bundled with aros, ready to be applied, for convenience.
but default look and feel should absolutely be aos3.1.
if user want to customise, fine let him customise. but default is aos3.1
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on July 10, 2022, 07:19:37 PM
AROS can set it as you want even as a 3.1 OS, AROS was born as the evolution of Amiga i.e. a modern Amiga, and on an RTG screen using 3.1 screens is downgrading as well as ugly to see.

That is why I created my distribution AROS One (you should try it), just to have something modern that could not disfigure against modern OSes, which many users liked.

Regarding Scalos or Magellan , like Ambient on MOS I never liked it, having one program that handles everything is not the Amiga folosophy, the Workbench like Wanderer with its many Apps for each prefs in my opinion is the best choice as well as staying in the Amiga philosophy.
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: nsklaus on July 10, 2022, 08:00:53 PM
i went to see some screenshot of your distro.
to each his own but, for me, this is exactly the opposite of what i like.

for me, perfection is:
- rtg  screen 16+k color,
- mui 3.8,
- magicwb icons,
- dopus5.
- no docks... i use custom menus (toolsdaemon style).
done. perfection.
see attached picture. (the wallpaper is not important here)
this is the natural look of amigaos.
if scalos looks like that on linux, then i have a new fav desktop coming.
if not, i'll continue working with amiwm.  (https://github.com/nsklaus/amiwm)


Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on July 10, 2022, 08:13:29 PM
Everyone has his own taste and it should be respected, I have I have almost all Amiga models and used all Amiga OSs, in the early 90s all Amighisti dreamed of something modern and advanced, Amiga has always been ahead, now instead I see that you row backwards.

This was my Amiga 4000 that I had already modernized 1990s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp8jtdIVQiw

This is my Magic Workbench 3.0, 1990s systema on Floppy HD
https://youtu.be/GfRB65MJnZw

This instead thanks to WinIAE is my OS Amiga 3.9 AfA One
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXyV1PvkNvo

This and an old version of mine from AROS One x8e
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc8WAjouEBI

Here are some more of my screenshots:

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=945.msg11900#new
Title: Re: Development Plan
Post by: deadwood on July 10, 2022, 08:14:31 PM
@nsklaus, @AMIGASYSTEM

Please move the discussion on your preferences with regards to look & feel to a separate thread.