Create PenDrive Live to install AROS instead of the DVD

AMIGASYSTEM · 455

AMIGASYSTEM

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on: February 25, 2021, 11:48:06 AM
As i wrote before: Usually that is not a problem but it can be (under certain circumstances) that the pendrive is unable to boot because of the presence of such an additional partition.
In the meantime, Sorry to bother you and waste your time, unfortunately, my English translation does not help to understand, I understand the translation of your English, I made the partitions on an external HD USB and not on a Pendrive and anyway, "install AROS" for me is not a problem I've never had, I've always installed AROS successfully on all devices.

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And that is where i get puzzled .... If you install it the way it is suppose to be installed then you write that you have no issues, yet at the same time you keep writing that when you follow this process you get an MBR boot error code when you boot such a created pendrive native on your system.....
I'm sorry but also here the translation makes disasters, the problem occurs only if I want to create a PendriveLive to "use it as installer" instead of the DVD
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 11:52:47 AM by AMIGASYSTEM »



magorium

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Reply #1 on: February 25, 2021, 10:15:10 PM
In the meantime, Sorry to bother you and waste your time,
Other then some miscommunication, you are not bothering me at all. If there is something that does not work then it is considered a challenge  ;)

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unfortunately, my English translation does not help to understand, I understand the translation of your English,
Please do not apologise for not mastering the English language.

After all, it is an obscure language spoken/written/read only by a handful of people in this world. I myself am also not very fluent in writing English (i often apply my native tongue grammar rules to my English writings, which is simply wrong)

That is why i suggested earlier: if you are uncertain about how to express yourself clearly in English, then feel free to write things in your native tongue. In case you are communicating in a English spoken forum, then it is advisable to also put up your own English translation, so that other people are able to follow the discussion as well.

It might perhaps not be the best idea (for me) to use a translation service (they are sometimes producing very wrong results) but as long as you are able to (extensively) describe things (e.g. not just using terminology used in your native language) then this helps with understanding what you wrote.

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I made the partitions on an external HD USB and not on a Pendrive and anyway, "install AROS" for me is not a problem I've never had, I've always installed AROS successfully on all devices.
Ok, so let us take this on step at a time.

You are writing, that you do not have any problem with running the "install aros" script, and that it installs AROS correctly for you (at least to a USB connected Hard Disk).

Therefor I am also assuming that this means that you are able to boot AROS native from that USB connected HD on your machine, and are able to do so without any problems.

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I'm sorry but also here the translation makes disasters, the problem occurs only if I want to create a PendriveLive to "use it as installer" instead of the DVD
Please don't worry about the translation. I think i am starting to understand what your problem is with regards to AROS.

Also, with this statement of yours, i am making some assumptions.

1) "create a pendrivelive"

The procedure for creating a pendrive is exactly the same as installing AROS to a HD. The only difference is that the device used during installation might be different.

2) "pendrive/live/"
There you are refering to a "live" pendrive. For AROS itself there is not such a thing as a "live" pendrive.

The only time i have seen the terminology "live" pendrive, is with Icaros Desktop. Icaros Desktop provides a script to create a special pendrive installer for you.

3) to "use it as installer"

As i wrote before. If you are doing a normal installation of AROS using "Install AROS", but instead of installing it to a Hard Disk you select to install AROS to a pendrive, then the result of that installation is that you have created a pendrive that is able to boot AROS native on your machine.

When you are able to boot the opendrive native on your machine, it allows you to repeat the same "Install AROS" procedure, so that you can use that pendrive to install AROS to another device (such as a internal IDE/SATA connected HD).


That leaves me with the following question: if you receive a MBR boot error code 3, then where exactly do your get that error ?

Is it:
a) during the first installation of your pendrive (e.g. the error is then generated by "install aros" ?

or is it:
b) when you finished creating the installation of AROS to the pendrive and are trying to boot the pendrive (that has AROS installed to it) native on your machine ?

or is it:
c) a and b worked for you as intended but when you tried to install AROS again (from the pendrive) to another device (for example an internal IDE/SATA HD) you get that error

or is it:
d) a, b and c worked without problems but when you finished the installation to the internal (IDE/SATA) device, and when you try to boot that device (where you just installed AROS to) native on your machine, you receive the MBR boot error code 3 ?

Depending on where exactly in the process you are receiving this error, a different strategy (and information) is required in order to understand and perhaps be able to solve the problem.

Just to make sure, i do know that the MBR boot error code is originating form the (native) boot-process, but since we see, lost somewhere in translation i just want to make sure  :)

Another concern i have is your use of the word "Live" pendrive. I somehow got the feeling that you are persistent in writing an AROS ISO file to a USB pendrive (either by using some 3th party tool like RUFUS or otherwise) . If that is the case, then you have answered your own question because (as i wrote before) that does not work for AROS.

The (currently only) method that does work for AROS, is as described in this post. Another solution, in order to write a image to a pendrive, is to create such an image manually and distribute that special crafted pendrive image,, as Paolone did with his lite distribution of Icaros Desktop.

Regards,
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 10:28:44 PM by magorium »



AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #2 on: February 25, 2021, 11:11:38 PM
Maybe this is it, the IcarOS script I tried it and it doesn't work, I did this procedure:

- Wipe Pendrive from Partition, Pendrive became RAW.
- Started InstallAROS and installed first Bootloader and then formatting
- Started IcarOS script and ISO data installation gone to good End
- Pendrive on PC black screen

- Repeated installation with the same procedure, but Pendrive formatted by Workbench, if I remember correctly this procedure gave me MBR error

- Repeated again the procedure, this time after installing Bootloader and formatting, copied the ISO data with Dopus, also here Black screen with blinking dash.

Returning to HD and Pendrive with "normal" AROS installation, never had problems, successfully installed on many Pendrive and HD, I attach two videos.

PC HP DualBoot Win7/AROS on HD:
https://youtu.be/HanNDtybtew

My AROS One installed on Pendrive start on Inspiron Mini 91 PC:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ke3mhGoQO2IZ9PKJaXp_Nth3FDO8IZb6/view


---- Italiano ----


Forse ci siamo, lo script di IcarOS l'ho provato e non funziona, ho fatto questa procedura:

- Ripulirto Pendrive da Partizione, Pendrive diventata RAW
- Avviato InstallAROS e installato prima Bootloader e poi formattazione
- Avviato script IcarOS e installazione dati ISO andato a buon Fine
- Pendrive su PC schermo nero

- Ripetuto installazione con stessa procedura, ma Pendrive formattata da Workbench, se ricordo bene questa procedura mi ha dato errore MBR

- Ripetuto ancoraprocedura, questa volta dopo installato Bootloader e formattazione, copiato i dati della ISO con Dopus, anche qui Schermo nero con trattino lampeggiante.

Tornando a HD e Pendrive con "normale" installazione AROS, mai avuto problemi, installato con successo su tante Pendrive e HD, di allego due video.

PC HP DualBoot Win7/AROS da HD:
https://youtu.be/HanNDtybtew


Il mio AROS One installato su Pendrive, avviato su PC Inspiron Mini 91:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ke3mhGoQO2IZ9PKJaXp_Nth3FDO8IZb6/view







magorium

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Reply #3 on: February 28, 2021, 02:06:34 AM
Hello AMIGASYSTEM,


Just wanted to let you know that i am currently unable to verify the process because the "create pendrive installation"-script from Icaros Desktop is failing for me (in VirtualBox) due to I/O-errors (when the script tries to copy files from the CD-Rom to the USB pendrive).


Having said that, it should work for you as the installation process is exactly similar to creating a normal installation with "Install Aros". The only difference is that you only have to select to copy the system files and install the bootblock. If that is finished you can start the "create pendrive installation" script (*).


Having said that, i do not know if the script (in the end, before my installation got stuck die to I/O-errors) tries to 'harm' the installation at the end of the script. The script itself does not seem to indicate such a thing though.


To be continued.


AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #4 on: February 28, 2021, 09:41:12 AM
Hello AMIGASYSTEM,

Just wanted to let you know that i am currently unable to verify the process because the "create pendrive installation"-script from Icaros Desktop is failing for me (in VirtualBox) due to I/O-errors (when the script tries to copy files from the CD-Rom to the USB pendrive).

Solved  ;D

"create pendrive installation" on script from Icaros Desktop, works fine with VirtualBox and VMware, you probably encountered the same problems as me.

I solved it by doing a thorough Pendrive Wipe (on Windows), the partition wipe was superficial and not being wiped properly.

I enclose a video that shows the procedure on VirtualBox !!!

Now thanks to Paolo I can create a PendriveLive with my AROS One ;)

Create PendriveLive with script Icaros on VirtualBox: Tutorial Video
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 10:55:58 AM by AMIGASYSTEM »



magorium

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Reply #5 on: February 28, 2021, 08:27:16 PM
Indeed AmigaSystem. Wiping the disk does not seem to work as expected  :'(

When I apply the following procedure, then the create pendrive installation succeeds for me using VirtualBox
1 - GParted, remove all partition information so that the pendrive is completely unallocated
2 - Start VM using Icaros Desktop Lite 3.2 ISO file
3 - "insert" Pendrive into Icaros Desktop VM
4 - Start "install Aros"
    - Select to use only free space on usbscsi.device device-number 0 (personal selection, e.g. apply your own when necessary)
    - Finish the program
5 - "Remove" pendrive from VM
6 - "Insert" pendrive to VM
7 - Start "install Aros" again
    - select to use existing Aros partitions
    - proceed
    - Select to install a) AROS core system files and b) install the bootloader.
    - proceed
    - Select to format the partition, in my personal case usbscsii.device named DUO
    - proceed
    - Select GRUB bootloader settings (i used the default selected options, again using usbscsi.device number 0)
    - proceed
    - proceed
    - Wait for installation to finish (took about 10 minutes)
    - proceed to finish "install aros"
8 - Start "create installation pendrive"
   Wait for it to finish (took about 5 minutes)
9 - "remove" pendrive from the VM
10 - Close Icaros Desktop VM.

What is left then is to close Virtualbox, reboot the computer, select to boot from the pendrive and select the correct Grub option that works for my machine and wait for the "Installation pendrive" to show the "Dopus Workbench".

Solved  ;D
Thank you for the confirmation that it now works for you.

There usually is a workaround to make things work  ;)


AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #6 on: February 28, 2021, 08:50:51 PM
Indeed AmigaSystem. Wiping the disk does not seem to work as expected  :'(

Yes a "Fast" Partition deletion in many cases does not clean up and leaves RDB or MBR trace, you can notice this problem on Wanderer, a Pendrive with a well deleted partition is not visible on Wanderer, while a not properly deleted Partition shows NoDOS icon.

Solution, delete partition including data, see screenshot. This operation takes a long time, but you don't have to finish it, just stop it after a few minutes, the time to clean up the initial part of the pendrive.

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5 - "Remove" pendrive from VM
6 - "Insert" pendrive to VM

There is no need to do this, I have never removed the Pendrive :)


magorium

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Reply #7 on: March 02, 2021, 01:42:24 AM
Yes a "Fast" Partition deletion in many cases does not clean up and leaves RDB or MBR trace, you can notice this problem on Wanderer, a Pendrive with a well deleted partition is not visible on Wanderer, while a not properly deleted Partition shows NoDOS icon.
Yes, indeed AMIGASYSTEM.

I have tested a couple of things and you are certainly correct there. Thank you for the hint about NoDOS because that answered a question i had, and thanks to your hint, was now able to verify the cause for that icon appearing.

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Solution, delete partition including data, see screenshot. This operation takes a long time, but you don't have to finish it, just stop it after a few minutes, the time to clean up the initial part of the pendrive.
Yes, any partition manager would do just fine. Thanks for the screenshot/confirmation.

Now , that makes me wonder... is there really no way, within AROS of course,  to be able to fully erase all information from a device. Because that would mean that we still would have to rely on 3th party operating systems in order to properly prepare such a device.

I have tried fiddling with HDToolbox, but that also seem to cause issues when certain conditions are met.

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5 - "Remove" pendrive from VM
6 - "Insert" pendrive to VM
There is no need to do this, I have never removed the Pendrive :)
Me neither, but i am just repeating the official presented instructions there  ;)

I have currently no idea if that work for all circumstances, for example if you go against paolone's instruction and do use a fat partition or create two AROS partitions.

I had a lot of issues with that (in combination with pendrives) in the past, and that usually resulted in the pendrive not booting properly or getting a lot of issues when it was (finally) able to boot.

More important: your issue with AROS is solved, as was the intention  :D

Thank you for the feedback and discussion.


AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #8 on: March 02, 2021, 08:53:29 AM
HDToolBox AROS is very complex compared to the OS3 version, I once created multiple AROS partitions, but Windows HD managers saw only one partition  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K64o4MtjV4


AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #9 on: March 06, 2021, 11:15:45 AM
magorium I don't know if you know it, there is a software that allows you to transform a Pendrive in CDROM, or create multiple partitions of which the first one is CDROM.

Unfortunately this siftware works only with particular models of Pendrive, the program does not start if it does not recognize the hardware.

Once you create the CDROM partition you will have the data indelible, all operating systems will see the pendrive as a CDROM, even the programs that manage the Partitions will not detect the Pendrive because it is considered a CDROM, and therefore can not delete the partition, or format it.

Too bad that with the AROS ISO does not work :(


paolone

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Reply #10 on: March 08, 2021, 11:29:36 AM
@Amigasystem


I sincerely wonder why you still insist. There is NO WAY to boot AROS from a ISO-formatted USB pendrive, no matter how you obtain it. And the reason is AROS kernel lacks of the necessary handlers to do this: no drivers, no party. And I, and other people, have several times reported this here and in other places (fora, social networks, magazines, etc).


AROS can 'understand' SFS-formatted boot partitions on USB pendrives only. This means that you can either install AROS from the CD-ROM TO a USB pendrive or 'fake' a regular USB installation including the same exact files that you may find on an AROS CD/DVD-ROM. But always a SFS formatted boot partition it will be.


So you can try whatever procedure or software tool that works for other operating system: they will always FAIL with AROS, creating pendrives that will just NOT boot. The only working procedure is the one described on Icaros website and manual, that you also tested working and slightly modified for your best fit.


salvo

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Reply #11 on: March 08, 2021, 01:54:32 PM
I tried with my distribution many times after the boot from the CD, I insert the USB stick, launch the installer indicate the exact device and do wipeDisk, everything works regularly :)

TinyAros on Laptop MSI X-600, Intel Core 2 Duo 1,8 Ghz, 3 Gb Ram, SSD Samsung 860 Evo 240 Gb, Nvidia 8400m GS 15" Vesa, WifI Atheros AR5006EG

http://tinyaros.flazio.com/home


AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #12 on: March 08, 2021, 04:19:41 PM
@Paolone
Paolo lo so ed quello che ho sempre affermato, forse la traduzione fa capire altro, io ho solo mostrato un software particolarissimo che "trasforma una pendrive in CD" questo significa che la pendrive viene considerata un CD da tutti gli OS, tanto vero che dalla pendrive non pi possibile cancellare dati, e non possibile formattarla e non pi possibile eliminare la partizione con nessun programma che edita partizioni,  compreso diskpart, dove non possono ne vederla o trattarla, questo pu farlo solo quel software che ricordo funziona solo su Harware dedicato.

La tua procedura funziona perfettamente, come tu hai anche citato, avevo incontrato problemi perch alcune pendrive non vengono ben ripulite da ne da "diskpart" o altri strumenti, su alcune pendrive restano tracce del vecchio bootloader (confermato da magorium), occorre una eliminazione "globale" come mostrato nello screenshot.

---- Inglese ----

Paolo I know and that is what I have always said, maybe the translation makes you understand something else, I only showed a very special software that "turns a pendrive into a CD" this means that the pendrive is considered a CD by all OS, so much so that the pendrive can no longer delete data, and you can not format it and you can not delete the partition with any program that edits partitions, including diskpart, where they can not see or treat it, this can only do that software that I remember works only on dedicated hardware.

Your procedure works perfectly I had problems because some pendrives are not well cleaned by "diskpart" or other tools, on some pendrives there are traces of the old bootloader (confirmed by magorium), you need a "global" deletion as shown in the screenshot.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 02:33:44 AM by AMIGASYSTEM »