AROS os about

braincure · 946

braincure

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on: December 20, 2020, 04:26:22 PM
Dear friends. There are some subjects I want to learn. I would be very happy if you give information.
Can Aros run classic amiga programs without adapting it?
I got support for programming languages for software development on Aros? eg java, visual studio, Golang, scala, ruby etc.

Aros is actually very close to being a very good alternative system if the necessary moves are made. Can you say it in such a way that I can understand why it didn't get enough support?

Is there any solution thought to continue development?
Sorry for my english too.




Mazze

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Reply #1 on: December 20, 2020, 07:14:53 PM
Dear friends. There are some subjects I want to learn. I would be very happy if you give information.
Can Aros run classic amiga programs without adapting it?

Classic Amiga is 32-bit big-endian. AROS can be compiled for both endianesses, so you might need to convert endianess when writing/reading data to files.
There's a 64-bit variant of AROS which requires that you change ULONG to IPTR if the variables should store adresses. Include system headers from proto.

Unfortunately, aros.sourceforge.io is currently down, so I can't provide a link from the documentation.

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I got support for programming languages for software development on Aros? eg java, visual studio, Golang, scala, ruby etc.

The best supported language is C. C++should work, too. We have Lua. There's an old port of Python.

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Aros is actually very close to being a very good alternative system if the necessary moves are made. Can you say it in such a way that I can understand why it didn't get enough support?

Back in 2006 there were about 10 active developers. It's hard to find people which have interest in developing for AROS and have the capabilities and have time.

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Is there any solution thought to continue development?

I guess only with a lot of money.



braincure

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Reply #2 on: December 21, 2020, 01:43:03 AM
Thank you for your attention. I hope my questions are not boring.
But there are issues that I am extremely curious about.

Why is the Amiga os so divided? Like Morph os or Aspire Os.

Is there a list of features to be developed, pilanted?

It was his graphic skills that he focused on when Amiga first came out. I think the game was brought forward with a wrong direction.
Whereas for graphics, desktop publishing and special effects it shone a little much later as users noticed.

I mean this. On which subject does Aros, which has been developed, want to create this shine?

Aros needs a light. People should see this light. In this way, coders attract the attention of users.

I am a retired, tired painter and graphic artist. I have some programming hobby. Aros was a dream I followed when I was working.
Now I want this dream to shine, get rid of the fragments of the past and come to the surface.

I send my love and respect to you all. Do not end this dream ...



aGGreSSor

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Reply #3 on: December 21, 2020, 08:57:20 AM
I am a retired, tired painter and graphic artist.
It's fine. Pay your attention to the theme section of the archive.
If you are good at graphics, maybe these themes need some work?


braincure

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Reply #4 on: December 21, 2020, 06:05:18 PM
I will try to take care of it.



magorium

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Reply #5 on: December 21, 2020, 11:17:26 PM
Why is the Amiga os so divided? Like Morph os or Aspire Os.
All money grabbing and ego, if you ask me  :P

But on a more serious note, to be able to answer that you would have to dive into the history of the Amiga.

There is an excellent website that covers the Amiga history, e.g. http://amigahistory.co.uk/ but unfortunately that seems down for me atm (forever ?) so instead try wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Amiga


There are 3 camps, AmigaOS4, MorphOS and AROS. 4 camps if you count classic OS3.x as well (i leave the hardware side of things for what it is)

AmigaOS4 and MorphOS are those that started a continuation of the platform (when the original developer went bankrupt) but their choice of graphical software components differs (MUI vs ClassAct (or whatever they name it these days) ) as well as the hardware their OS runs on.

Neither of those two are open source, while AROS is (hence its existence) and AROS had another goal (running on different hardware).

As for AspireOS vs Icaros Desktop vs Broadway vs Aros-One vs etc. etc: they all have the same base (AROS) and build their distribution on too of that. Same answer you would get when asking why are there are (so many) Linux distributions.

They simply serve another purpose, Icaros being the flagship (includes most if not all available software for AROS), ApireOS focusing on simplicity and speed (lower end hardware) Broadway i've mostly seen in a hosted fashion, and i have no clue about Aros-one (as i haven't tried it yet).


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Is there a list of features to be developed, pilanted?
http://www.aros.org/introduction/status/everything.php

No idea if that is still being updated though. Besides that, if you look at the commits made in ABIV1 you can see that a lot of work is being done towards the build system as a whole (and that is not listed anywhere else afaik)

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I mean this. On which subject does Aros, which has been developed, want to create this shine?
The fact that it can run on any hardware in existence (well, sort of) and is open source. Think of it as ReactOS on steroids  :)

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Aros needs a light. People should see this light. In this way, coders attract the attention of users.
...
Now I want this dream to shine, get rid of the fragments of the past and come to the surface.
Ah well, you can always dream of course. In my personal opinion: that ship has sailed on many occasions. And do not get me wrong, afairc there are moments there was a bit of code-sharing between OS4, MorphOS and AROS or idea's that could have gotten some attention in the big world.

If there is one thing this project thought me about Amiga (and its successors) is that there seem to be quite a big issue with regards to timing in that opportunities are simply missed (or not acknowledged) over and over and over again, and for whatever reason(s).



magorium

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Reply #6 on: December 22, 2020, 12:34:19 AM
Can Aros run classic amiga programs without adapting it?
Mazze is addressing the situation where you have access to the source and are able to (re)compile. I'll address when you do not have the source(s).



That depends on what hardware AROS is running.

If it is on classic (or vampire or similar) hardware then yes (provided they play nice with the OS).

If you ask if AROS for your pc or mac (i386/x86_64, powerpc, arm) is able too then the answer would be no, not unless there is some form of emulation or additional hardware that takes care of the classic 68k code.

Note that this is kind of a grey area, as for example M.Schulz is working on a sort of emulation on an arm processor that is able to swap endianess to make it easier to be able to run 68k (Amiga) software.

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I got support for programming languages for software development on Aros? eg java, visual studio, Golang, scala, ruby etc.
Besides the ones already mentioned by mazze: Free Pascal (language), PortablE (transpiler from E to C), Hollywood (lua like scripting), Love2d (which is in fact a lua framework) and there are some Basic-language interpreters/compilers as well. Do note that most of the latter do not integrate well with AROS as they usually lack AROS specific considerations/additions.

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Aros is actually very close to being a very good alternative system if the necessary moves are made. Can you say it in such a way that I can understand why it didn't get enough support?
Also explained pretty well by Mazze. In addition see also my previous reply about missing opportunities.

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Is there any solution thought to continue development?
Interest and time. Both can sometimes be "bought"/compensated with some money. That said, i believe none of the developers i've met seem to be in this (AROS) line of business for the money.

Developers would for sure be more motivated when there is a bigger user-base (chicken-egg)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 12:37:20 AM by magorium »



braincure

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Reply #7 on: December 22, 2020, 04:32:51 AM
magorium, I thank you for the detailed information.



braincure

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Reply #8 on: December 22, 2020, 05:04:22 AM
I want to share some of my thoughts.
Windows no driver problem. There is simplicity in program setup. But there are so many complexities inside that the user does not see them.
registery and dll mountains. Over time, the system debris becomes so large that the processor slows down.

Linux is another way users prefer. It is tedious, not practical, and there is driver support.
warn me if I'm wrong.

Reactos is a project that I follow with interest and see an anti-capitalist resistance and love it.

I've also reviewed many other OS trials. But I did not include it because they are not common.
I see that Aros can actually achieve something very important.

A clean system that does not grow in installation and removal due to its clean nature. Windows u out of choice in this regard
can leave.
Aros can be an alternative due to its difficulty of use and its unfriendly structure in linux.

But for Aros to achieve them

1- It should have a built-in emulator to run old original software. This emulator should detect the program without additional operations and run the old software.
2- It should definitely be 64 bit.
3- Maybe you should connect the driver structure to the linux drivers and overcome the driver problem in this way.
4- Gui should be made as skillful as windows and modernized by preserving its original.
5- There should definitely be a method to transfer software such as chrome with a simple compilation. Internet access is absolutely decisive.

These are my thoughts. I don't know what you guys think. But aros can really be an alternative.



aGGreSSor

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Reply #9 on: December 22, 2020, 10:58:17 AM
Excuse me, but this is somewhat naive.
Windows no driver problem. There is simplicity in program setup. But there are so many complexities inside that the user does not see them.
registery and dll mountains. Over time, the system debris becomes so large that the processor slows down.
Modern windows write to the registry in a continuous loop. MS Windows record the position of each window, the window element (which is also a separate window in the MS Windows ideology), the state of each object that the operating system works with. This is necessary for timely response to events, including the user level. Similar mechanisms in other OS are less developed. For Example, in AmigaOS 4 appeared Ringhio. This is a very weak hack compared to KDE framework in Linux and even more so Android, MacOS X and MS Windows, but at least something. Other operating systems (in particular AROS) don't even have this..

Linux is another way users prefer. It is tedious, not practical, and there is driver support. warn me if I'm wrong.
There are no complex and simple operating systems. You either know how it works or you don't. The reason why the user doesn't know is always in himself. The user spent 25 years using windows and 10 years using AmigaOS, and then Linux seems difficult to him. We know other examples when a user spent 30 years of his life using UNIX, and then he needed to take computer literacy courses to learn how to use MS Windows. This is a common thing.

The user uses the ecosystem and in the conditions of the ecosystem used, everything is enough for him. It's just that this ecosystem is very narrow (like on the Amiga), somewhat broader (like on a mac) or comprehensive (like on MS Windows and modern Linux). For Linux, so many drivers didn't fall out of the sky either.

Reactos is a project that I follow with interest and see an anti-capitalist resistance and love it.
They try, but they initially chose hardcode. If AROS followed the hardcode path, today it would not exist.

1- It should have a built-in emulator to run old original software. This emulator should detect the program without additional operations and run the old software.
This is not a big problem solved by scripts. The problem is the lack of a modern emulator.

2- It should definitely be 64 bit.
Yes, I agree with it.

3- Maybe you should connect the driver structure to the linux drivers and overcome the driver problem in this way.
This is unrealistic. Different operating systems have different architectures.

4- Gui should be made as skillful as windows and modernized by preserving its original.
Either must be skillful or must be original (and incompatible). Expanding the capabilities of OS components (not only GUI) requires thoughtful planning and a good knowledge of the architecture of this operating system. And even then, no one is immune from architectural errors, which we saw in the example ABIv0.

5- There should definitely be a method to transfer software such as chrome with a simple compilation. Internet access is absolutely decisive.
From what a person says, honey in the mouth does not become sweeter. There is a way. Study, study and study again, as Lenin said.  ;D


Samurai_Crow

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Reply #10 on: December 22, 2020, 06:42:26 PM
But for Aros to achieve them

1- It should have a built-in emulator to run old original software. This emulator should detect the program without additional operations and run the old software.
2- It should definitely be 64 bit.
3- Maybe you should connect the driver structure to the linux drivers and overcome the driver problem in this way.
4- Gui should be made as skillful as windows and modernized by preserving its original.
5- There should definitely be a method to transfer software such as chrome with a simple compilation. Internet access is absolutely decisive.

These are my thoughts. I don't know what you guys think. But aros can really be an alternative.
Dr. Michal Schulz had an idea to integrate portions of hosted AROS with the Linux kernel and drivers.  He calls his project ARIX but it is still in an early stage of development.  It has all of the things you describe except the built-in emulator support as it is essentially Linux with the Zune GUI.  If successful, I can only imagine it being one of many other desktop environments of Linux at best and an asterisk in the history of Amiga at worst.



braincure

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Reply #11 on: December 22, 2020, 07:36:56 PM
Thank you for your answers and attention.
These quests are actually because AROS does not have enough software and driver development.
I think this problem is the problem of all open source systems.



braincure

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Reply #12 on: December 22, 2020, 07:48:20 PM
Actually, I saw one more project. "Checkmate"

If a standard equipment of acceptable innovation is configured and placed in this Checkmate case,
Could the development of an aros that fully supports this hardware make progress faster?



Samurai_Crow

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Reply #13 on: December 22, 2020, 08:52:03 PM
Checkmate is just an empty case.  What "standard hardware" would you put in it?

I think the Raspberry Pi 400 looks more promising.



aGGreSSor

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Reply #14 on: December 22, 2020, 08:52:14 PM
Actually, I saw one more project. "Checkmate"

If a standard equipment of acceptable innovation is configured and placed in this Checkmate case,
Could the development of an aros that fully supports this hardware make progress faster?
Please provide links to what you write about. I think a game of chess or a case with light bulbs will not affect the development of AROS in any way.