AROS Exec

General => Help => Topic started by: mph on December 16, 2021, 05:00:52 PM

Title: Sorry, many question.
Post by: mph on December 16, 2021, 05:00:52 PM
Hey all,
I've installed and used Aros many times (native i386). Tested it on a Wyse Cx0 today. Everything works but the ethernet (no builtin wifi). I just haven't gotten around to asking deeper questions until now. I've skimmed through the site. But I don't think it had the answers I was looking for.

So here goes,

How far has the protected memory development come along? The site mentions it. But I don't know if it has been updated in a while.

Can Aros build itself? Just wondering if I need to dual boot or not.

What are the actual system requirements? Its not actually i386 is it? Does a system need PAE or SSE?

If it required something like SSE, is that something that can be changed when building?

Is multitasking cooperative? Or preemptive-ish?

Is there any task priority control?

Is there some documentation of the AmigaShell?

How would one go about changing a MSR value, before the the privilege is lost?

Does the bootloader have to be GRUB? Could Syslinux be setup, after install?

During boot, has any one ever encountered just the word "grub" and no further boot progress?

Is there support for parallel and serial ports? If so, can direct access be achieved (like with Dos/Win3x)?

Is midi supported though USB or just software emulated? If it isn't just software emulated, is it supported through ports other than USB?

Can an ISO be mounted?

Is there a recently compiled Software ISO library?

Does anyone actively use the p2p software for Amiga/Aros (other than IRC)?

What is the difference between AmigaShell and AROS-Shell?

Has there always been an error when you quit Wanderer?

Can you launch a shell without Wanderer?

If you need at least one shell open to open programs with workbench, is there an escape option? Like adding & to a command in linux bash.

Can you add shell commands at boot?

Can you disable Wanderer startup at boot?

I guess that's it, for now. I know I've asked a lot. But others will be able to search it up now.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on December 16, 2021, 05:21:41 PM
Hey all,
I've installed and used Aros many times (native i386). Tested it on a Wyse Cx0 today. Everything works but the ethernet (no builtin wifi). I just haven't gotten around to asking deeper questions until now. I've skimmed through the site. But I don't think it had the answers I was looking for.

So here goes,

Hi mph and welcome to aros-exc, I'll see if I can answer some of your questions, maybe someone can answer the rest of the questions.

Quote
How far has the protected memory development come along? The site mentions it. But I don't know if it has been updated in a while.

I think it is partially

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Can Aros build itself? Just wondering if I need to dual boot or not

AROS x86 can be installed directly on PC Hardware or in DualBoot, in this case you need to know how to do it to avoid deleting the other OSes

Quote
What are the actual system requirements? Its not actually i386 is it? Does a system need PAE or SSE?

Find all requirements on compatible hardware HERE (https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Platforms/x86_Complete_System_HCL)

Quote
Is there some documentation of the AmigaShell?

HERE (http://www.pjhutchison.org/emulation/uae_amigados.html) you can find the FAQ of AmigaDOS

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During boot, has any one ever encountered just the word "grub" and no further boot progress?

Yes but it is a native AROS GRUB no Linux GRUB

Quote
Is there support for parallel and serial ports? If so, can direct access be achieved (like with Dos/Win3x)?

I think so, I haven't tested it yet

Quote
Is midi supported though USB or just software emulated? If it isn't just software emulated, is it supported through ports other than USB?

In Emulation it works, it should also work on real PC if the hardware is supported

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Can an ISO be mounted?

Yes you can mount ISO, Floppy in various Filesystems

Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: salvo on December 16, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
I don't think about modern computers you can install Aros this because it does not have the SATA support and if from the BIOS you can't enable the legacy emulation or IDE you can't do anything, unless you start the system via usb, on key or external hard drive, currently I have an intel core duo 2, I know is a dated configuration but everything works perfectly, if I could do a dual boot with windows.
In the past I used the stupendous XEON workstations of the HP Series Z, Z400 and Z600, Aros uses only a processor core so these options are too expansive, it does not support the PAE and therefore maximum memory can be used 4 GB, as a card Graphics I currently have a NVIDIA GeForce 210 512 MB works very well and apart from GL games there is no software that exploits them.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: mph on December 16, 2021, 06:12:07 PM
Hi mph and welcome to aros-exc, I'll see if I can answer some of your questions, maybe someone can answer the rest of the questions.

Thanks for the Welcome! Thanks for your answers, too. I will reply to some of them, to help clarify.

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Q. Can Aros build itself? Just wondering if I need to dual boot or not.

A. AROS x86 can be installed directly on PC Hardware or in DualBoot, in this case you need to know how to do it to avoid deleting the other OSes

Yes, Aros dual boots great.

I might need to dual boot, but only if Aros cannot build (compile) itself. Then I would need to boot to something else, anytime I wanted to compile Aros, and then back again to test it.

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Q. What are the actual system requirements? Its not actually i386 is it? Does a system need PAE or SSE?

A. Find all requirements on compatible hardware HERE (https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Platforms/x86_Complete_System_HCL)

By some of the machines listed, that does answer much of my question. I noticed a Pentium II in there (i686). But I am more specifically looking to see which members of the x86 family are supported. For example a 386, Pentium, Pentium pro. And I suppose I'm curious what CPU feature are supported. But I am less concerned about that.

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Q. Is there some documentation of the AmigaShell?

A. HERE (http://www.pjhutchison.org/emulation/uae_amigados.html) you can find the FAQ of AmigaDOS

That might answer some of my other questions. It just depends how much of that was implemented in Aros.

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Q. Is midi supported though USB or just software emulated? If it isn't just software emulated, is it supported through ports other than USB?

A. In Emulation it works, it should also work on real PC if the hardware is supported

By Emulation, I mean midi output via Timidity; or something like that. For older midi hardware you need to connect out and/or in through older style midi connectors; either via some USB to midi hardware bridge or a soundcard's joystick port (if the card has midi support). Most newer midi devices are USB to USB.

Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on December 16, 2021, 06:28:15 PM

Yes, Aros dual boots great.

You can see my AROS/Win10 DualBoot in this link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TaRVsm2B8KmRfb8J13_PJKX4Pz-9HV7C/view

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That might answer some of my other questions. It just depends how much of that was implemented in Aros.

AROS is based on OS 3.1 then there are the implementations of Wanderer that is based on the Workbench, in line of principle as commands does not change anything compared to OS3

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Q. Is midi supported though USB or just software emulated? If it isn't just software emulated, is it supported through ports other than USB?

MIDI Files are supported both via software "Timidity" and via hardware, I attach a recent video of mine with AROS One 68k (same AROS x86 functions), the Hardware MIDI is emulated by WinUAE, download the small video file from here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bVbITs1XHwTZ9oeheaTLiGVVBJgk1q5Y/view
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: mph on December 16, 2021, 06:31:05 PM
I don't think about modern computers you can install Aros this because it does not have the SATA support and if from the BIOS you can't enable the legacy emulation or IDE you can't do anything, unless you start the system via usb, on key or external hard drive, currently I have an intel core duo 2, I know is a dated configuration but everything works perfectly, if I could do a dual boot with windows.
In the past I used the stupendous XEON workstations of the HP Series Z, Z400 and Z600, Aros uses only a processor core so these options are too expansive, it does not support the PAE and therefore maximum memory can be used 4 GB, as a card Graphics I currently have a NVIDIA GeForce 210 512 MB works very well and apart from GL games there is no software that exploits them.

Hey Savlo! Thanks for working on a Distro. Its great to see another one.

I have two HP Z440 towers. Got them for free, but haven't used them. Most of my machines are !!very!! dated. To post this, I'm using a PentiumM Toughbook CF-29 (1.6ghz). Thanks for the info on the PAE. That means it may boot on a i586. Most of the machines I intend to use would need software rendered GL. So probably no N64 emulation for me.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: mph on December 16, 2021, 06:38:53 PM
MIDI Files are supported both via software "Timidity" and via hardware, I attach a recent video of mine with AROS One 68k (same AROS x86 functions), the Hardware MIDI is emulated by WinUAE, download the small video file from here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bVbITs1XHwTZ9oeheaTLiGVVBJgk1q5Y/view

Thats great!

I forgot who I was talking to. I've used your Distro too. Thanks for the hard work. Plenty of nice music software on there.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: salvo on December 16, 2021, 07:09:26 PM
yes work to another distribution thanks, currently unfortunately we have no rendering software belonged to povray 3.6.1, as far as the midi are concerned, there is only timidity for reproducing harmonyplayer files makes use of it, ah there is no MIDI editor that works At the moment, the current USB system does not direct the MIDI protocol as it should
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: salvo on December 16, 2021, 07:15:59 PM
We have an essential DAW AudioEvolution 4 and also a Drum Machine PXDRUM, the best tracker Protrekkr software is quite professional :)
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: mph on December 16, 2021, 07:53:23 PM
the current USB system does not direct the MIDI protocol as it should

That might be interesting to implement. Or try to implement. I haven't written any protocol or hardware code.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: magorium on December 16, 2021, 07:54:04 PM
Hi mph, and welcome.


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How far has the protected memory development come along? The site mentions it. But I don't know if it has been updated in a while.
afaik It has not been updated. Memory protection is a big word btw. It is more a basic protection, not memory protection as is used in modern day era/wording.


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Can Aros build itself? Just wondering if I need to dual boot or not.
Yes. If not then it is considered a bug :-)

But it is far easier to develop Aros on another system, as AROS can be a bit unstable at times and lacks a few tools to make life easier.


For instance there is even axrt (from deadwood) that let's you compile AROS software on *nix and let it run natively there as well.

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What are the actual system requirements? Its not actually i386 is it? Does a system need PAE or SSE?
68020, armv6 (or is it even lower ? dunno), ppc, i386. Which flavour you wish answered ? It does not need PAE or afaik SSE.

edit: AROS is compiled for 32 or 64 bit and inherits its corresponding limitations.

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If it required something like SSE, is that something that can be changed when building?
The AROS sources are available so if you wish to compile it with or without certain processor specific features then you should be able to (provided that you know what you are doing/am able to fix any issues that might pop up)


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Is multitasking cooperative? Or preemptive-ish?
afaik cooperative


(whoopsie) I meant preemptive.

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Is there any task priority control?
yes, you can set a task to a certain priority at least when started. See the taskmanager to see information on priorities (snoopy)

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Is there some documentation of the AmigaShell?
Keep in mind that Aros has an extended shell in comparison with the classic AmigaShell.

If not mistaken then you can type help <name of command> in a shell to get a gui popup explaining the command (courtesy of Mazze)


There is also a pdf distributed with Icaros Desktop that explain the dos commands.


further reads:
Using Aros by the shell -> http://www.aros.org/documentation/users/shell/index.php (http://www.aros.org/documentation/users/shell/index.php)

Aros DOS commands -> https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/User/DOS (https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/User/DOS)
AmigaOS4.x amigados -> https://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_AmigaDOS (https://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_AmigaDOS)


Besides those Aros also supports the n*x shell sh (you can invoke it from the commandline, not sure if development tools need to be installed though)


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How would one go about changing a MSR value, before the the privilege is lost?
I have no idea. Perhaps a AROS OS developer is able to answer that for you.


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Does the bootloader have to be GRUB? Could Syslinux be setup, after install?
GRUB2 or uboot afaik and uboot because some hardware depends on it.


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During boot, has any one ever encountered just the word "grub" and no further boot progress?
yes :-)


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Is there support for parallel and serial ports? If so, can direct access be achieved (like with Dos/Win3x)?
At least for serial. I do not have experience with addressing the parallelport. Classic OS supported the parallelport so it should work (tm)


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Is midi supported though USB or just software emulated? If it isn't just software emulated, is it supported through ports other than USB?
not afaik. I seem to remember that fellow Aros user Dizzy once worked on/at the USB stack, but i can't remember if that included midi.


There is midi support within the OS, but i do not know for sure to what extend.


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Can an ISO be mounted?
Yes, either manually by a mountlist or by a special GUI tool (which name eludes me atm)


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Is there a recently compiled Software ISO library?
No sure what you mean there. A custom software library ? or one provided by the Aros OS ?


fwiw, i program in Pascal and use the iso lib that is written in native pascal so that i am able to manipulate.extract iso files programmatically.
I'm confident there is such a 'library' around somewhere for c as well.

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Does anyone actively use the p2p software for Amiga/Aros (other than IRC)?
hmz, not sure if i would qualify irc as p2p. Files can be exchanged by any network protocol (ftp/samba/http).


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What is the difference between AmigaShell and AROS-Shell?
Aros shell should behave exactly the same as classic AmigaShell and add some extra things (improvements/bugfixes) on top of that.


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Has there always been an error when you quit Wanderer?
Any workbench that you quit would produce such an error because when you quit wanderer (just a workbench) you are literally asking the "gui" to quit.


But perhaps you expected something else to happen ?


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Can you launch a shell without Wanderer?
Yes. you can do that directly from the startup-sequence. And if you like omit starting a workbench alltogether.


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If you need at least one shell open to open programs with workbench, is there an escape option? Like adding & to a command in linux bash.
I am not sure what exactly you are asking there (i'm a bit tired, so please forgive me).


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Can you add shell commands at boot?
Yes,. You can launch complete (custom) shell script if you would like so. The startup-sequence will be launched first (located in s directory) and
somewhere in there the user startup is executed.


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Can you disable Wanderer startup at boot?
Yes, just omit it or replace it inside the startup-sequence with something else that is more to your liking.


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I guess that's it, for now. I know I've asked a lot. But others will be able to search it up now.
A lot of questions indeed :-)


In case you wish to know more just ask, although i am not a system developer so am nort always able to answer things that are deeply embedded into the os.


edit: typos and some further clarity.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: salvo on December 16, 2021, 08:12:45 PM
the current USB system does not direct the MIDI protocol as it should

That might be interesting to implement. Or try to implement. I haven't written any protocol or hardware code.

The problem is the interface that manages the USB, it should have been corrected in the X64 version of Aros which is currently not available, MIDI software would be and also a programmer willing to make everything usable but if you do not make the corrections due You can't go ahead, we had a discussion with Bars & Pipes Manteiner the Midi sequencer brought precisely by it

(https://i.ibb.co/jM6xxqf/bars.jpg)
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: miker1264 on December 16, 2021, 09:33:57 PM
What was the name of the Bars n Pipes Author again?

Alfred Faust maybe? I seem to remember he kept asking for assistance with the CAMD system but no one was willing to help. I didn't know anything about it so I couldn't help him.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: mph on December 16, 2021, 10:51:51 PM
Magorium, thank you for the reply, as well.

I'll clarify the unclear questions. And remark about things.

Yes. If not then it is considered a bug :-)

Glad to hear it.

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Q. What are the actual system requirements? Its not actually i386 is it? Does a system need PAE or SSE?
A. 68020, armv6 (or is it even lower ? dunno), ppc, i386. Which flavour you wish answered ? It does not need PAE or afaik SSE.

I'll clarify this one much better.

For the Amiga, there is a history (family) of MPUs that started with the MC68000. From there you had the MC68010, MC68020, etc. Some things compiled for the MC68020 cannot be ran on the MC68000.

For the Intel family of CPUs, people often say i386; when they really probably mean x86. I remember back in the early 90's most people just said i386 for every common consumer Intel CPU. But eventually the distinction became more important. For example, modern Linux can not run on i386. Support for i386 was dropped at the end of 2012. Debian still offers a i486 kernel. But many Distros, that still support x86, only support i686. With i686 support, you can use Pentium Pro, Pentium II, and newer. But you cannot use a PentiumMMX. Many modern operating systems only support x86_64. They dropped support for the x86 family of CPUs.

In the list of Aros tested computers, I noticed at least one computer with a Pentium II. I don't know how long ago that was tested. 

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Q. Is multitasking cooperative? Or preemptive-ish?

A. afaik cooperative

In case anyone is wondering, Linux and Windows 95 (and newer) are preemptive multitasking. Window 3.11 had cooperative multitasking. However,  I was told that the cli applications were preemptive.

In a way, I was hopping that Aros was cooperatively multitasked. Since there isn't already established memory protection, I was guessing that it was cooperative.

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Q. Does the bootloader have to be GRUB? Could Syslinux be setup, after install?

A. GRUB2 or uboot afaik and uboot because some hardware depends on it.

I'm not too worried about uboot. But I mostly answered this question for myself.

I should clarify this one a little. One thing I had wondered here, is if Grub2 is a fork of grub; specifically altered for Aros. For the most part boot loaders are independent of their OS. For example Syslinux boots Dos, Windows, KolibriOS, and Linux. If I installed Aros to one partition and Sysliux was on another, I could boot Aros it with Syslinux. But then it would run Grub2 right after Syslinux.

At the grub boot screen, I pressed 'e' to look over the boot config. I'm going look further at how Aros boots in the near future. Its very interesting. But I doubt Syslinux could replace Grub.

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Q. Is there a recently compiled Software ISO library?

A. No sure what you mean there. A custom software library ? or one provided by the Aros OS ?

Yeah, I worded that badly. I was wondering if anyone has downloaded software that can run on Aros. Then organized them all in a Folder Library. Then uploaded as a Zip or Iso. I don't mean like the torrents of Amiga completed collections of copyrighted software. I mean, like a collection of things you can get from Aros-exec.   

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Q. Does anyone actively use the p2p software for Amiga/Aros (other than IRC)?

A. hmz, not sure if i would qualify irc as p2p. Files can be exchanged by any network protocol (ftp/samba/http).

I agree that most people don't see IRC as p2p software. But some people use IRC in a very similar fashion as DC++. For example, there is a DJ hub on DC++ where artists join and share all of their work. Its kinda nice to have a place like that, without being tied to a website or commercial service. Amigift was pretty cool. I like the concept of a chat client/server that is also a file server in one package. I get that piracy gives p2p a bad reputation. But certainly the capabilities of IRC fit the definition of many p2p clients.

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Q. Has there always been an error when you quit Wanderer?

A. Any workbench that you quit would produce such an error because when you quit wanderer (just a workbench) you are literally asking the "gui" to quit.

But perhaps you expected something else to happen ?

Yes. I owned a Mist FPGA for running Amiga. As long as you had a shell, you could close Workbench. It helped a little, when the system was low on memory; from running a heavy application.

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Q. If you need at least one shell open to open programs with workbench, is there an escape option? Like adding & to a command in linux bash.

A. I am not sure what exactly you are asking there (i'm a bit tired, so please forgive me).

If you use the shell to compress a large file, the shell will be tied up until the compression is done.

For example: "zip collection collection.zip"

In bash you can use & to escape this, and continue to use the same shell. "zip collection collection.zip&"

I did notice commands like "newcli" for AmigaDos. I think it, or something like it, will work for me; even if there is no escape option like &. So If I am working without wanderer, I can use something like "newcli"; then I am not stuck with only one shell.   

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A lot of questions indeed :-)

In case you wish to know more just ask, although i am not a system developer so am nort always able to answer things that are deeply embedded into the os.

You did pretty good. I am really glad that everyone took the time to answer some things.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on December 16, 2021, 11:13:29 PM


If you use the shell to compress a large file, the shell will be tied up until the compression is done.

For example: "zip collection collection.zip"

In bash you can use & to escape this, and continue to use the same shell. "zip collection collection.zip&"

Also the SHELL or CLI you can release and use while running something, to do this you have to use
Run >Nil:
This parameter also in front of any App (but also in the back) will not even show comments or errors
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: mph on December 16, 2021, 11:30:11 PM
Also the SHELL or CLI you can release and use while running something, to do this you have to use
Run >Nil:
This parameter also in front of any App (but also in the back) will not even show comments or errors

You nailed it. That's what I was looking for. 
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: magorium on December 16, 2021, 11:39:00 PM

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For the Amiga, there is a history (family) of MPUs that started with the MC68000. From there you had the MC68010, MC68020, etc. Some things compiled for the MC68020 cannot be ran on the MC68000.
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification, and my bad.


AROS' lowest target for m68k is 68020 atm.


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For the Intel family of CPUs, people often say i386; when they really probably mean x86. I remember back in the early 90's most people just said i386 for every common consumer Intel CPU. But eventually the distinction became more important. For example, modern Linux can not run on i386. Support for i386 was dropped at the end of 2012. Debian still offers a i486 kernel. But many Distros, that still support x86, only support i686. With i686 support, you can use Pentium Pro, Pentium II, and newer. But you cannot use a PentiumMMX. Many modern operating systems only support x86_64. They dropped support for the x86 family of CPUs.
Good question to which I do not know the answer atm. I would have to resort to emulation in order to verify that.


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In the list of Aros tested computers, I noticed at least one computer with a Pentium II. I don't know how long ago that was tested. 
If memory serves me correctly i had AROS running on a pentium 1 machine. But also on a n270 (atom)


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In case anyone is wondering, Linux and Windows 95 (and newer) are preemptive multitasking. Window 3.11 had cooperative multitasking. However,  I was told that the cli applications were preemptive.


In a way, I was hopping that Aros was cooperatively multitasked. Since there isn't already established memory protection, I was guessing that it was cooperative.
Yeah and i was writing down the wrong answer (corrected it later in my original post). Sorry for that.


From origin it is preemptive. But i lack the knowledge of the current implementation on x86.


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I should clarify this one a little. One thing I had wondered here, is if Grub2 is a fork of grub;
Grub2 is the successor of grub (1).


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specifically altered for Aros.
No alteration, unless you count sfs filesystem support module as such.


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For the most part boot loaders are independent of their OS. For example Syslinux boots Dos, Windows, KolibriOS, and Linux. If I installed Aros to one partition and Sysliux was on another, I could boot Aros it with Syslinux. But then it would run Grub2 right after Syslinux.


At the grub boot screen, I pressed 'e' to look over the boot config. I'm going look further at how Aros boots in the near future. Its very interesting. But I doubt Syslinux could replace Grub.
Yeah syslinux is interresting in case you have hardware that does not play nice with grub as it is able to chainload grub in such cases.


afaik there is no support for syslinux, only grub (and now grub2, since linux moved to grub 2)


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Yeah, I worded that badly. I was wondering if anyone has downloaded software that can run on Aros. Then organized them all in a Folder Library. Then uploaded as a Zip or Iso. I don't mean like the torrents of Amiga completed collections of copyrighted software. I mean, like a collection of things you can get from Aros-exec.   
Ah, my bad interpretation :-)


Your best best is the Icaros Desktop DVD that has all software that is available on it. The rest is scattered around the interwebs, Aros archives being one of them.


The Icaros DVD has them in separate packages which you can opt to install or not during the installation process. But you are probably smart enough to locate the archives and extract software from there manually ;-)


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I agree that most people don't see IRC as p2p software. But some people use IRC in a very similar fashion as DC++. For example, there is a DJ hub on DC++ where artists join and share all of their work. Its kinda nice to have a place like that, without being tied to a website or commercial service. Amigift was pretty cool. I like the concept of a chat client/server that is also a file server in one package. I get that piracy gives p2p a bad reputation. But certainly the capabilities of IRC fit the definition of many p2p clients.
Ah ok, i see. dc+ is/was nice indeed. Unfortunately no such client for AROS. I do not know of any other p2p software for AROS atm.




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f you use the shell to compress a large file, the shell will be tied up until the compression is done.


For example: "zip collection collection.zip"


In bash you can use & to escape this, and continue to use the same shell. "zip collection collection.zip&"
Oh, you mean like in linux bash shell ? Should work for AROS' sh as well ;-)


But you can open as many cli's as you wish and set them to work (or not). You can also _run_ a command in the background.

Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: mph on December 17, 2021, 12:03:05 AM
Your best best is the Icaros Desktop DVD that has all software that is available on it. The rest is scattered around the interwebs, Aros archives being one of them.

The Icaros DVD has them in separate packages which you can opt to install or not during the installation process. But you are probably smart enough to locate the archives and extract software from there manually ;-)

Actually, that's a good idea. I didn't realize each was in a package like that. I wonder why they did it that way? Did they add a software selection option, during install, and I just missed it? 

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Ah ok, i see. dc+ is/was nice indeed. Unfortunately no such client for AROS. I do not know of any other p2p software for AROS atm.

Amigift had support for Gnutella. It would need to be reworked, to make it more community supportive. There used to be a Java based client called Phex. It gave the option to connect to the main network, or you could create your own; by choosing a name for it. It was chat capable. But I think it lacked "chat rooms".
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on December 17, 2021, 12:34:10 AM

Actually, that's a good idea. I didn't realize each was in a package like that. I wonder why they did it that way? Did they add a software selection option, during install, and I just missed it? 


Yes the full version of Icaros at the end of the installation asks if you want to install the extra software, if I accept it does it silently and it seems that it does nothing, probably you thought the installation was finished.

On my Distro instead I used the traditional method, all the extra software I chose is installed in Extras all in thematic folders.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: magorium on December 17, 2021, 12:36:45 AM
Quote
I didn't realize each was in a package like that.
Note that there are a few packages (let's call them groups) as for example development and games. Each individual package (depending on which software titles are included) can make use of a so called package install script that is required for the OS in order to locate the software correctly (they are installed by the installer) and usually resides inside the "s" directory and are called automatically by the startup sequence (it's a little magic inside s-s).

Such 'package' scripts do for example add assigns/mountlist/expand the path or do other stuff in order to make the individual software titles accessible and/or work.

Quote
I wonder why they did it that way?
History.

Quote
Did they add a software selection option, during install, and I just missed it? 
Initially the default AROS installer had no provision for installing additional software.

And to answer another question someone else had (was it Salvo or AmigaSystem ?) that is why the extra's package was created. It allows for the installer to launch an additional installer. For Icaros Desktop this means launching a gui tool that allows you to select individual packages from a list that can be selected/deselected.

This way allows for the specially crafted AROS installer to both support basic installations as well as 'distro's. The installer was initially never intended to support the latter.

If you tap the extra software option checkbox during installation of Icaros Desktop then the selection box should pop up when you continue the installation as usual (it will pop up later during the install), but don't pinpoint me on the exact timing where the package selection pops-up though, as it has been a while since i last used it :-/

The cd version has only a small subset of packages whilst the dvd should contain all available software. Painstakingly collected by paolone over the many years, and there are some software tiles in there that can not be found anywhere else.

Quote
Amigift had support for Gnutella
AROS is source compatible as long as the source does not contain cpu specific instructions (well for that specific cpu it would then ofc). So if you have sources of any amiga program which is written in c you should be able to compile it for AROS *hint hint* ;-)

Anything not working that way is considered a bug and should be reported.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: salvo on December 17, 2021, 12:01:04 PM
What was the name of the Bars n Pipes Author again?

Alfred Faust maybe? I seem to remember he kept asking for assistance with the CAMD system but no one was willing to help. I didn't know anything about it so I couldn't help him.

yes Miker Alfred Faust

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=496.0
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: mph on December 18, 2021, 06:52:31 AM
That's kinda funny. I've wanted to investigate driver development for Aros. That is one reason I wanted to know how Aros interacted with serial and parallel ports. I have some interfaces that would require me to write drivers (serial/parallel), to use them with Aros. But the same question, for me anyway, relates to Usb midi.

Many of my deeper questions can be answered once I start looking at source. I don't want to join a mailing list or anything. I hardly want to bother Aros devs.

I still haven't looked too deep. But certainly Aros is more mature than I expected (system level).

https://aros.sourceforge.io/documentation/developers/specifications/drafts/exec.php

It seems Aros uses a microkernel named Exec, just like Amiga.

In my opinion, it would be huge if Aros had low-ish latency midi. One of my main draws to Aros, is music (potential). A nice clean, uncluttered, single user OS.  I'd give a swing at getting my hands dirty. No promises. There is a lot to get familiar with.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: Jeff1138 on December 18, 2021, 07:26:54 AM
Hi,

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=496.0

For USB use

NB.: here is the text at the top of the source to the camdusbmidi.class
/*
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 *                         camdusbmidi class for poseidon
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 *                   By Chris Hodges <chrisly@platon42.de>
 */

/* TODO: Somebody needs to port the assembly 68k camd driver to something that is used under AROS! */


Regards
Jeff

Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: miker1264 on December 18, 2021, 07:49:28 AM
@mph

Welcome to AROS development.

That's how it begins with an area of personal interest. I got involved with AROS because I have an interest in icons and graphics. Developing small apps for AROS or updating some existing system components for AROS is interesting to me.

For AROS x86 the main distribution is "IcarosDesktop" which is maintained by @paolone who does a great job of assembling and distributing the ISO images for each release. There are a few other x86 distros such as Tiny AROS and AROS One x86 which are maintained by others. The system files for x86 come from the Alt-ABIv0 repository which deadwood maintains. He also does a great job of assembling, compiling and testing.

We also have IcarosDesktop x86_64 which is more experimental. Not as much third party software is available for x86_64 because it is relatively new in the world of Amiga-like OS'es. The IcarosDesktop x86_64 is also maintained by paolone. I use it for testing purposes as well as IcarosDesktop x86.

There is also AROS 68k which is very much similar to Classic Amiga OS. It is binary compatible. Components of Amiga OS3 can be used on AROS 68k without recompiling. Many datatypes and small applications and games are examples of that.

As far as development for AROS 68k & AROS x86 & AROS x86_64 we used to have a mailing list but no more. That was moved to the Slack Channels. That was active for several years. Now there are only a few developers left working on ABIv1 which is 64bit only and 68k. ABIv1 does not include 32bit code.

Here at AROS Exec deadwood is the main developer with many years of experience. There are a few others with much experience such as Yannick. Then there are beginners like me.

We communicate and collaborate but mostly work on projects that are of interest. There is much code samples available in the Github repositories. We have Main and Contrib. The Contrib Repo has much of the third party apps and libraries. There you will find some music related projects that may be of interest.

Welcome again!

Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: miker1264 on December 18, 2021, 07:56:06 AM
Hi,

https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=496.0

For USB use

NB.: here is the text at the top of the source to the camdusbmidi.class
/*
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 *                         camdusbmidi class for poseidon
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 *                   By Chris Hodges <chrisly@platon42.de>
 */

/* TODO: Somebody needs to port the assembly 68k camd driver to something that is used under AROS! */


Regards
Jeff

Hmmm...

That last bit is for a developer interested in music.  ;)
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: salvo on December 18, 2021, 12:42:26 PM
Mah Alfred was working on it but the driver is missing to interface with the camd.library
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: AMIGASYSTEM on December 18, 2021, 01:18:44 PM
If you can play MIDI on AROS 68k you can also do it from AROS x86!
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: salvo on December 18, 2021, 02:15:27 PM
No discussed how to interface MIDI hardware on sequencer :)
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: Fats on December 22, 2021, 10:59:29 PM
From origin it is preemptive. But i lack the knowledge of the current implementation on x86.

AROS is preemptive multitasking on all platforms. The caveat though is that each task can disable the task switching.
Title: Re: Sorry, many question.
Post by: magorium on December 24, 2021, 07:27:03 PM
@Staf
Thank you for the additional information. Good to know.

@mph:
Quote
For the Intel family of CPUs, people often say i386; when they really probably mean x86. I remember back in the early 90's most people just said i386 for every common consumer Intel CPU. But eventually the distinction became more important. For example, modern Linux can not run on i386. Support for i386 was dropped at the end of 2012. Debian still offers a i486 kernel. But many Distros, that still support x86, only support i686. With i686 support, you can use Pentium Pro, Pentium II, and newer. But you cannot use a PentiumMMX. Many modern operating systems only support x86_64. They dropped support for the x86 family of CPUs.
I am now able to let you know that i am unable to let it run on a i386 emulator.

The closest/lowest I am able to get is 486, as is written here ( http://www.aros.org/documentation/users/installation.php#id1 (http://www.aros.org/documentation/users/installation.php#id1) ) as well :
Quote
You will need a PCI-based PC-AT (based on i486 or later) with PS/2 or USB mouse, PS/2, AT or USB keyboard, IDE hard disk and CD-ROM on parallel ATA or SATA configured in legacy mode, and an (S)VGA video card and monitor. At least 24 MB of RAM is required. A VESA-compliant VGA card is recommended. There are generic 2D-accelerated drivers (HIDDs) for some ATI and nVidia cards.