My experience, awesome but...

Germandroide · 502

Germandroide

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on: February 18, 2021, 12:44:41 AM
Hello, I managed to learn how to install IcAros within Linux since I read the manual with great enthusiasm and understood that it worked better on Linux than on Windows and better than natively or emulatedly.

I started to study everything and repair it well, I installed Linux and it took two days to understand a little bit the minimum necessary Linux to be comfortable, since I am a common user, I am not a programmer and I have never used Linux...

After installing Linux and getting IcAros to work well I discovered that every time I wanted to load IcAros I had to open a terminal and write a small loading program, I wrote the spells on a text and put it by hand so that I could invoke IcAros every time some problem arose and

I read that it's in development I had problems yet so it didn't miss me.
I started to see everything little by little and loved to see how well documented everything is and how many things it includes pre-installed, very well everything and the graphic look quite acceptable... When I managed to be comfortable inside IcAros I tried to load software and that's when my surprise was falling.

We are inside a Linux that perfectly emulates x86k applications and we can launch Linux applications from aros but we launched a uae inside aros that does not work well, I spent three days fighting and reinstalling everything, I put my copy of Amigaforever and everything worked well but when I loaded the Wanderer or some api3 my computer became a brick , impossible to load things that from Linux go perfect with Fs UAE, I even put Wine and Winuae on Linux and everything was going perfecT

I wish I could throw a point of view
My hope was to see a system similar to MorphOS, something almost finished but as PPC has. X86 has no active project that can be called AmigaOS NG and serves to use on a day-to-day

I've seen a lot of things, AerOS seemed to have been perfect but it's off. Commodore Os Vision of Commodore USA I loved but also turned it off, Amilator is the evolution of Amithlon and allows to load Amikit, which I find spectacular but this I prefer to do it in WinUAE because AmikitXE is explened and very well finished but it is a AmigaOS 3.9 with many patches to make it beautiful and load the old software, the web browser does not work but allows to launch the Windows one as Chrome or Brave or whatever (a 10 in this point) as other apps on Hosting OS.

DO YOU ALREADY KNOW FydeOS? I think it's a point in history, because they have managed to join the user experience since android OS with a desktop skin and also load Linux applications, I installed Blender 2.9 and could use Android Telegram in another window... That's great!

Ar.Os can work on top of Linux because we have seen it, it is already programmed and then you can load Linux programs and use Linux to manage older x86k programs effortlessly, Ar.OS can offer a AmigaOS NG user experience and load software programmed for Ar.OS (sorry to put a point, the translator changes Ar.OS to me for hoops)
Then we can see that apparently The Ar.Os approach is to create an AmigaOS operating system but free, which is great but does not lead us to the new generation of users, who may want to use new Linux or Windows or ARM applications...

At this time we already have an operating system capable of loading Ar.Os applications and that works very well within Linux and we also know that Linux can load all the old X86k-based software, we only need to use Linux so that Ar OS can recognize all the hardware and replace the Linux user interface with that of AmigaOS... As Commodore Vision did, it's done too.

I am a fan of the Amiga system and for work and life I had to disconnect and a few months ago I saw the advances again, and I see that PPC has OS4 and MorphOS but x86 only has Os3.9 and AmikitXE as the best user interface... Many patches, WHDLoad, fsuae Launcher and anyway, the system is still in the late 90s...

I want to thank you and applaud you for all the development that has been going up to these dates and I would like my words and common user point of view to help you

We almost have the definitive system, it is not long... Aeros did, CommodoreOS too (almost, it was a Linux that loaded Emulators)

Bless you
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 12:52:27 AM by Germandroide »



AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #1 on: February 18, 2021, 01:38:06 AM
Hello, I managed to learn how to install IcAros within Linux since I read the manual with great enthusiasm and understood that it worked better on Linux than on Windows and better than natively or emulatedly.
In my opinion AROS works much better installed on PC if hardware is compatible, alternatively in Virtual Machine with VMware Player.


Germandroide

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Reply #2 on: February 18, 2021, 02:10:57 PM

[/quote]
In my opinion AROS works much better installed on PC if hardware is compatible, alternatively in Virtual Machine with VMware Player.
[/quote]

Of course, it's the ideal scenario but just what I'm commenting on because to have compatible hardware and not spend time on development what you need is to use Linux below and so AR OS will be adopted to all the hardware... In addition, as a benefit you can have Linux applications in the AmigaOS interface, as FydeOS does with the Android Desktop interface and Debian applications... On the other hand we could use fs Launcher instead of WHDLoad or iGames and load as much demos as x68k apis



AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #3 on: February 18, 2021, 02:47:06 PM
Yes but the satisfaction is to use AROS, for example I don't like host systems, if I want Linux or Windows I use them separately.


aGGreSSor

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Reply #4 on: February 18, 2021, 02:54:16 PM
Of course, it's the ideal scenario but just what I'm commenting on because to have compatible hardware and not spend time on development what you need is to use Linux below and so AR OS will be adopted to all the hardware... In addition, as a benefit you can have Linux applications in the AmigaOS interface, as FydeOS does with the Android Desktop interface and Debian applications... On the other hand we could use fs Launcher instead of WHDLoad or iGames and load as much demos as x68k apis
I answered here.
AROS is not a linux wallpaper or another stupid window manager. AROS is an operating system.
Launching Windows or Linux applications is possible if a solution for isolated environments is developed.
Such solutions exist for AmigaOS, for example AmiCygnix.
Linux applications work well in Linux, but in AmigaOS they break the entire Amiga ecosystem because they are alien and forced solutions.
It makes sense when it comes to archivers and compilers. Parasitic projects die along with what they parasitize and completely depend on what they parasitize (Windows version, Linux kernel version). They can be successful for six months or a year. AROS is not a parasitic project in general. Applications should adapt to AROS using the power of AROS, not run as is. Otherwise, a normal Linux application looks like it has changed the gender after being launched under AROS.

Wallpaper "like Amiga" and themes for window managers can be taken on kde-look

we could use fs Launcher instead of WHDLoad
Could they use a WHDLoad instead of a fsLauncher? No. WHDLoad is primary.
First of all, these are two completely different projects.

iGames
It's just an interface that can be easily ported. There is one problem on which I didn't put the iGame build in the archive and aminet, but there are dozens of such interfaces.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 03:11:54 PM by aGGreSSor »



paolone

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Reply #5 on: February 18, 2021, 03:25:58 PM
@Germandroide


Hello, welcome, and thank you for sharing your user experience with Icaros Desktop. I am happy you spent some time exploring the system and I can agree on some of your statements. Please remember that hosted version of AROS is primarily meant to be a tool for developers, who can write AROS applications, compile them and test 'em straight on the system without rebooting the machine, change computer or start a separate virtual machine. On Icaros, we are extending this by allowing people to start Linux/Windows programs through HostBridge and, with some extent, even use Icaros as a whole GUI for their host system, if they like. As a proof of concept, I even have a test virtual machine based on Linux, with Icaros Desktop starting automatically as desktop manager, with all programs already integrated and coherent window decorations for both systems: it has many little flaws, but it is a fair good integrated experience, allowing people to use Linux programs to perform operations on AROS files.


Germandroide

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Reply #6 on: February 18, 2021, 10:35:14 PM
I have one Laptop Sony Vaio, core2duo t7500 with NV8600M GS GPU And 4GB Ram... Not possible to Boot icaros, it is my AmigaPC. It runs MiniOS10 and then AmikitXE on Winuae...

Not possible to Run IcAros, not looking to virtualize a Machine to load an AmigaOS, I preferí to use the whole PC Power because it is not powerfull enough to virtual machines, not SSE but it is quite enough to load a Linux or a Windows...

Then i have 5 more Pcs, 2 are olders and 3 are newers... But IcAros doesnt Boot on no one... No uefi or MBR problem, I think there is problem in the grub.

Is it possible to load IcAros on uae? May be is better to use Amilator to launch it, im sure my 5 Pcs are powerfull to load it natively...

Im not a developer, I thank that the hosting IcAros on Linux was a great Solutions to users Like me and im sure its better to use UAE from Linux on top of use IcAros UAE to launch 68k Stuff and better to use from IcAros all needed things from Linux that Will empower the user experience.

Users wants the Easy and ergonomic, look on MacOS we used Shapshifter to emulate it and now it uses UAE to emulate AmigaOS... Because AmigaOS is freezed on 68k or PPC and its needed to Go to the top, Aros can do it... There is none AmigaOS for x86, I have 5 diferents computers and no one can install any AmigaOS without VMware.

Amilator is quite good to Launch a Workbench 3.9 but in 2021 it is not a real Operating System Like Aros can be.

I think IcAros can be better than AerOS was... Cerrainly I dont know if any time worked, May be neither.

The think is that is possible and May be Easier to take taht way.

Linux Hardware injector
Boot to FS Launcher - to speed gaming interface
Boot to UAE to load 86k/PPC OS
Boot to Aros (wirh hardware standar Thanks to Linux) and in Aros we can still ising Linux in the background wor Qemu, Wine, Play in Linux, UAE and Linux Store and have the Best Aros user experience.

This combo is perfect and friendly for users on x86, ARM, PPC, or 68K architechtures because I just discovered there is a Linux Port for 68k and May be interesting (dont know that)...

It is an Idea, at the moment I know more than 500 users with less experience Like me in Aros, no one could make it work without VMware...



Germandroide

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Reply #7 on: February 18, 2021, 11:27:09 PM
 AmiCygnix.

Wallpaper "like Amiga" and themes for window managers can be taken on kde-look

Great!!! It is done... Is fantastic  :)
I Will try Anicygnis and there if it works I Will replay to spanish users... Thanks a lot for those links, May be anyone knows about Linux and can do any think with it, it seems better than must use Workbench under Winuae when there is MorphOS on PPC side... I think X86/64 can do it better and there is more users and people to get fun with New AmigaOS to relife the scene again...

Im sure any time Will be any Distro for us, not only for Emulation... Aros is the way and Linux is the shortcut to get all them up... I have no idea of Linux but I can see that. It can work under and it is growing in a Google project, ChromeOS is taking that way, an Android Desktop OS with x11 Api. (Thanks you to teach me that technicism, x11 I understand are Linux Api)

Nice  ;D

I apoligize, ny English is not good writted but I do what I can... I dont know English

Edit. Amicygnix is a Linux for OS4, there is a vídeo running OS4 on Winuae and then Amicygnix... Not sustentable idea, overheating northpole to Run Gymp? It is better to Run Linux and then UAE to launch OS4...

Not a Solution for x86 users but interesting for PPC users but I think them has x86 too
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 11:48:31 PM by Germandroide »



aGGreSSor

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Reply #8 on: February 19, 2021, 06:48:58 AM
I apoligize, ny English is not good writted but I do what I can... I dont know English
No one knows English. Englishmen coming to the St. Petersburg Economic Forum require an interpreter from English British into English international to communicate with their English-speaking partners from Europe. Because when a European talks about "10 action" and an Englishman talks about "10 shares" they cannot understand each other. Don't be shy.

Edit. Amicygnix is a Linux for OS4
No. AmiCygnix is not a Linux for OS4. AmiCygnix is a fully featured release of the X11 Windows Environment. Anything you can run with a GUI in Linux requires X11. Having the source codes of the program with GUI for Linux, it can be ported and adapted for AmigaOS 3, AmigaOS 4, AROS or MorphOS. The problem is that Linux GUI like Gnome, KDE, etc. require X11 which is not on the Amiga. Therefore, when Linux apps porting without X11, you have to throw away all the code concerning the GUI and write your own code for Amiga GUI (Intuition, Reaction, MUI, etc). AmiCygnix solves this problem and shows X11 windows in Amiga GUI (Reaction). This is X11 adapted for OS4. AmiCygnix can be (theoretically) ported to AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS 3. When such a port will be released, all Linux software adapted for OS 4 with AmiCignix can be ported to AROS/MorphOS/AmigaOS 3 very fast. It will work as a native application for these systems. For example, you can take the name of the icon from the Wanderer desktop, copy it to the clipboard and paste it into the GIMP or LibreOffice. Adapted Linux applications with the required file system will be isolated in a separate AmigaDOS drawer and access files through system, not an emulator. In the future, AmiCygnix or a similar solution may become available on AROS, because it's necessary. Similar interoperability solutions exist for other operating systems, for example Cygwin.

Not sustentable idea, overheating northpole to Run Gymp?
GIMP. AmiCygnix launches adapted GIMP. Since you are mistaken in the name of the programs, it means that you have seen few of them and most likely you will be satisfied with the "Luna Paint" in AROS.  :D This error isn't related to knowledge of English.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 07:03:40 AM by aGGreSSor »



Germandroide

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Reply #9 on: February 19, 2021, 08:54:28 AM
Quote
No one knows English
jajajaja Thanks...

Quote
Adapted Linux applications with the required file system will be isolated in a separate AmigaDOS drawer and access files through system, not an emulator. In the future, AmiCygnix or a similar solution may become available on AROS, because it's necessary. Similar interoperability solutions exist for other operating systems, for example Cygwin.

Impressive! That Sounds progressive, yes... It turns everything, but I think its only usefull for users on PPC/68k arquitecturas because others can Run natively a Linux on the Back of Aros... IcAros made me see that. Installing IcAros as an app on a Linux made IcAros Run on my Pcs but is not possible to Run it natively from its Boot. That means Linux injected to Aros all my hardware specs and Aros use it as good as is possible, Aros is lot fast but not 86k and at this point I saw it from other perspective.
About it and on lots of peoples experiences I know, I think the greatest abd Easy way is to launch a very Tiny Linux to make Aros Power full and able to use the Linux UAE to launch 68k apps and few Linux applications we need to install as in FydeOS /ChromeOS are doing for its Android Desktop x86 system. There is Native flowing and them are on the starting of this idea.

Aros is done, its "problem" at this moment is spenting time to do thinks can ve made Easy with Linux on the Back.
It is necessary to continue working on it to make a stand alone system but at the moment it can be Real for all soectating users cant install and enjoy it...

The Big part of soectating users are not genious, we are common people and we can do thinks following a guide as IcAros one, but I saw more people with no ability to do it and burning the ISO to USB is the only task did and its not the needed to make it work. I spent 4days to make it work on two of my 6pcs and to try it properly since I saw it good everything.

I know apps made to Aros are great as Luna paint seems, but I prefer to use Krita or Gimp... and the same with the Web browser, and so on... There you are right on the think of the exceding use of Linux apps under Aros but it is not the quit of the question, I belive the quit is to make a System greater than Linux is and Linux fail is the user interfaces, me hates to use commands to do things im habbit to do easier with user interface, it is better to use guis to do every thing, as in Android or in MacOS, the Easy is the Best... And in AmigaOS is fun, lot of work to be better as MacOS for exemple but the starting is to be usefull for more people, now I discovered a Spark app Installer for Linux applications, it Will be great to install applications on a Working Aros I talk About, and then the way Will be on work in the user interface and in the Amiga Os interpreter...

I know it is disruptive point of view, but trust me... No one or very low people is able to try Aros and only to try it, not use it as MacOS or Windows OS... I think Aros can make it better tha Mac or Windows... Using properly Linux to make the aros Power full and atractive



AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #10 on: February 19, 2021, 09:34:38 AM
AROS already has a 68k emulator and it's called Janus UAE, with AROS you don't need linux, with Janus UAE for example you can also run WHDLoad games you can see it on this old AROS One Video of mine:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19TZ8-T3hQMwyGjoVSb8flh6kjVpwgIxR/view

« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 01:02:04 PM by AMIGASYSTEM »



Germandroide

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Reply #11 on: February 19, 2021, 01:05:50 PM
Yes!! I saw that video at the first... great video but I tried on my laptop with no satisfaction... Not bootable and I dont know why, i burned in GPT, MBR and tried to use another grub to launch it...

Then I said no possible to try other Aros distro than icaros, may be this Aros i better than icaros. In icaros I´ve seen than Janus doesn´t work properly bu in the same linux where i launched Icaros i´d experienced good results in FsUAE and with WinUAE throug Play on Linux... was perfect and unespected better WinUAE than in Woindows...

I used Linux to launch icaros becaus I where looking for an AmigaOS x86 solution like MorphOS is for PPC and I read icaros is integrated with linux or Windows but better on linux. That is the reason i´ve said that Aros is poor emulating 68k apps, I know it has Janus and seems work perfect on a virtual PC but i prefer use WinUAE to launch oldery stuff in a closed system... May be RaspBerry is a good container to launch Pimiga or else but i where looking for an AmigaOS x86 solution with ability to be a per day Operating system, at least as MorphOS is on PPCs

And then i´ve where spending lot of time and sharing experiences with lot of peopple tryng to achieve. But I get the best reults and about it i decided to comunicate all you...

On this moment, lots of x86 users are usin WinUAE as unique solution to use AmigaOS and thinks AmigaOS 3.9 reached the top... may be AmikitXE is the best patched solution but we saw Aros project workin on virtual machines bu not on real installations... then Is expressed the conclussions...

We spected Linux where bring to us the ability to reach a real AmigaOS NG experience like i mentioned UP. This is the croquis I exlained:

"AmigaOS in Aros can be the best ever solution and the only one for get NG OS open sourced experience"
"Aros is able to launch in 86k, PPC, ARM and x86"
"All platforms can run Linux"
"Aros has a problem to inject hardware spects and problems on compatibilities"
"Amithlon, Amilator, and AerOS has solved the boot and the hardware injector using Linux"
"CommodoreOS Vision and Aeros, and AspireOS had great results on, using Linux to get the best AmigaOS experience but ar closed projects"
"FS-UAE launcher is the best game, demos and whdloads player"

And why not do that ? knowing everithing is done and working:

- A linux based distro with fast boot to FS-Launcher to speedup the player experience
- An injector to solve hardware problems on Aros
- An Aros fused on top of a tiny linux with the ability of use it for launch Linux UAE, Wine, PlayOnLinux, Steam, Stadia, etc...
- An Aros AmigaOS experience for the NG users able to launch Amiga and Linux aplications and with the user interface withtout the problems the common people refuses of Linux, the therminal runes that no one knows why are needed on traditional processes thas a 2021 OS doesn´t need... FydeOS/Google ChromeOS is on this line doing that with Android Desktop on top of a Linux and mixing the Android User experience with the linux and Android Stores

I know Aros is working hard to solve everything by own, but I say tht all this is just working and there is a prallel powerfull project to see it (FydeOS), I have running on my MS Surface P3 and yes it works so good...
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 01:27:32 PM by Germandroide »



AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #12 on: February 19, 2021, 01:17:52 PM
This is not the way to install AROS there are two methods, the slowest one is to burn the ISO to DVD and then use the DVD to install AROS via AROS Installer.

A better and much faster solution is to connect the Hard Disk of the PC to VMWare with a USB Case, and initialize, format and install AROS "all" with InstallAROS.

Very important thing in some cases is to clean the HD deleting Partitions and MBR traces, you can see the installation mode from this new video of mine with AROS One v1.4 preview:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-GqGf5xktcFvezngVPOltiGwR8i_NIGl/view


« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 07:36:01 PM by AMIGASYSTEM »



Germandroide

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Reply #13 on: February 19, 2021, 01:30:21 PM
Wow!, great idea.. we didn´t think on it...

but is multiboot ? i seen in the video "use free space"

I have a Windows MiniOS installation on the laptop...
May be is a solution using any grub installer?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 01:40:24 PM by Germandroide »



AMIGASYSTEM

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Reply #14 on: February 19, 2021, 02:22:18 PM
Yes you can also create a DualBoot for example Win7/AROS, to do this you must create a partition "RAW" to devote to AROS, after this you install Windows that will create the DualBoot, see Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HanNDtybtew